Is this community death or WHAT!?

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Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Zearthus » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:18 am

The more and more, I see myself asking this question on a weekly basis. There is no discussions going on, no one look in any other sections, aside from lets just dump my things in my sketchbook and be done with it logs out. WHERE THE hell is the community at? We might as well just give everyone a rock to live under, since that's how it feels.

Sorry for the language, but I'm kind of getting irritated the way this community is going, and always has been for some time now.... Either is time for me to just mitigate to another forum, or bring life back in the community, which the latter almost seems impossible to do, especially when peoples aren't really coming together as a community.

Am I just spouting nonsense, or you feel the same thing?


(Putting this in both Lunchroom/Questions helps & Explanation, in hopes to get some sort of discussion going on. Since there is only a handful that actually bothers to check elsewhere)
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Lodratio » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:24 am

Let's be fair here: Eventhough we're much smaller than CA our contests are almost as big as and more involved than the ones that are held over there, and I'd say that compared to other art-communities, that all seem to be suffering from this same problem, we're not doing all that bad.
I agree that it would be great if we could become more of a community though, and other people do as well. We were having a discussion on it here, actually. Feel free to share your thoughts over there. Maybe we'll be able to find a way to make this forum less focused around people dumping things in their sketchbooks.
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Enydimon » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:09 am

To be fair, the challenges were in hiatus for months and we only just got a critique centre up. The only thing I can possibly think of that we could do to expand upon that is to get sketchgroups going so at least a small group of people can befriend each other and motivate each other to learn. But that's usually a user driven thing. I know at the beginning Crimson Daggers had a lot of streamed classes and critiques that brought the community together, but not exactly feasible for us if we don't have people with the time to do that, lol.

But I do share your sentiment that I would like to see more community interaction. I try my best to critique and comment when I can and that's pretty much all you can really do in this situation. If enough people who feel like us start going around and making interactions happen then the culture of the board should ideally change.
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Zearthus » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:15 am

Yeah, the challenges somewhat went down the drain, for months now, same with the bootcamps.... so... yeah. I also do my best to comment/critique 5 to 10 posts a week at least, so that's roughly between 1 to 2 post a day.
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Kikindaface » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:57 pm

well, it's hard to set up a strong community without a strong core of a few motivated peoples that post tons of shit daily. back in the old days, in ca.org, the massive black crew was doing that . Now it's a bit harder to make it work ... but still doable ^^
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Zearthus » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:38 am

@Kikindaface
Well that's indeed true. Kind of contemplating if I should stick to daily posting vs weekly posting, during my down session. But one step at a time right? :)
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Nowio » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:11 am

@Kiki & @Zee
nononoNONONONONONO NOOOOO!!! Not dead, don't bury the forum community yet! ;) Stick to daily posting, I'll do my best to keep pushing everyone with regular updates etc :D
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Siji » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:44 am

Personnaly I try to give at least 2/3 critiques every 2/3 days, when I post my shit usually, as I started posting more regularly every 2/3 days... I guess if a core group fo people start doign that, it might help somehow..

I think a chatbox would be cool to set up hang out session to work with other people, that would be a real PLUS to favor the " community " thing. Also a return of the challenges, with them announced at the top of the forum so that people are aware they're ON.
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Sophie_Draws » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:33 am

I think that's a really good point about the challenges, having them announced on the front page would great. That way everyone would be aware of them and hopefully there will be a greater turn out. That said I know very little about website design, but if it was Possible that would be nice. I think we have a recommendation thread for the challenges which is really good but that's another one where I'm not sure if many people know about it as there hasn't been many.
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Lodratio » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:56 am

Siji
Yeah, if it becomes just a bit more common for people to take interest in eachother it could totally change the climate of the entire forum, and having a chatbox would defnitely encourage that.

Sopie
I agree that challenges and community activities in general should get more of a spotlight on the forum.
The fact that the sketchbooks are the first topic in the catalogue already sends the wrong message. There are probably people who want to join a community to participate in challenges do critiques or just talk about art, but they might not see any reason to join our forum because we're all about the sketchbooks right now. Imo updating a sketchbook doesn't need to be the focus of forum life, it could just be something on the side.
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby dead_parts » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:55 pm

Hi all,

I thought I'd weigh in considering I'm new to this place. Firstly, I'm loving the site. I know there is a lot to be said for the community aspect of things, but I think there is still potential for life.

I agree with many of these comments regarding challenges etc. They can be a big help in bringing people together and forcing people to confront criticism. However, I think sketchbooks are really crucial too, so I wouldn't try to decrease their effect on the site. So, some questions / ideas from a newbie entering the site...

1) How long has PermaNoobs been around?

2) Online Public Crits - Is there any space for some sort of dedicated criticism? I.e. a thread in which people can post finished work, and at a specific time (maybe via Hangouts etc) work is reviewed by some key artists. I think the idea of a crit is important. At universities, it is common for students to get up in front of the class and present. This could essentially be that idea. It helps people overcome the criticism fear whilst also building relationships between different artists of variable abilities. They wouldn't have to present on video, rather they upload a finished post to a thread and it gets reviewed at a specific time.

3) Community Spotlight - Will there be a space to show off the best work going on. I.e. challenge winners etc? I think this can be an encouraging part of an art forum. With that said, I will say that I hate the current obsession with whole screen thumbnail pages. This is a forum primarly, and the simple design of the place is really great. It is easy to see threads and just hop around. Personally, I think Conceptart.org is awful at the mo, not just because of a dying community, but because it wants to be too many things. It tries to be Artstation, CG Hub, Art forum all at the same time. All I suggest, is that maybe there is some graphical display of top art work (perhaps as a very simply, rotating banner, similar to Polycount forums.)

Apologies if any of this has been answered already or is obvious, still lurking around the site threads and discovering things.

Anway, I think the site is great so far and I think with time, the community will gather. Good work attracts good people.
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Enydimon » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:35 am

dead_parts wrote:1) How long has PermaNoobs been around?

It's been around since mid April of 2014. So a year and a bit.


dead_parts wrote:2) Online Public Crits - Is there any space for some sort of dedicated criticism? I.e. a thread in which people can post finished work, and at a specific time (maybe via Hangouts etc) work is reviewed by some key artists. I think the idea of a crit is important. At universities, it is common for students to get up in front of the class and present. This could essentially be that idea. It helps people overcome the criticism fear whilst also building relationships between different artists of variable abilities. They wouldn't have to present on video, rather they upload a finished post to a thread and it gets reviewed at a specific time.

We sort of do this with our challenges. You can find them here, but the last challenge has yet to be critiqued as far as I know:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mairuku/videos

dead_parts wrote:3) Community Spotlight - Will there be a space to show off the best work going on. I.e. challenge winners etc? I think this can be an encouraging part of an art forum. With that said, I will say that I hate the current obsession with whole screen thumbnail pages. This is a forum primarly, and the simple design of the place is really great. It is easy to see threads and just hop around. Personally, I think Conceptart.org is awful at the mo, not just because of a dying community, but because it wants to be too many things. It tries to be Artstation, CG Hub, Art forum all at the same time. All I suggest, is that maybe there is some graphical display of top art work (perhaps as a very simply, rotating banner, similar to Polycount forums.)

Atm, all the finished challenge winners pretty much stay within their respective threads and depending on who sets up the challenge, sometimes a reward is given.

I agree, though. Bringing attention to the challenges beyond just signatures would probably help.

dead_parts wrote:Apologies if any of this has been answered already or is obvious, still lurking around the site threads and discovering things.
[/quote][/quote]
No problem!
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Enydimon » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:36 am

dead_parts wrote:1) How long has PermaNoobs been around?

It's been around since mid April of 2014. So a year and a bit.


dead_parts wrote:2) Online Public Crits - Is there any space for some sort of dedicated criticism? I.e. a thread in which people can post finished work, and at a specific time (maybe via Hangouts etc) work is reviewed by some key artists. I think the idea of a crit is important. At universities, it is common for students to get up in front of the class and present. This could essentially be that idea. It helps people overcome the criticism fear whilst also building relationships between different artists of variable abilities. They wouldn't have to present on video, rather they upload a finished post to a thread and it gets reviewed at a specific time.

We sort of do this with our challenges. You can find them here, but the last challenge has yet to be critiqued as far as I know:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mairuku/videos

dead_parts wrote:3) Community Spotlight - Will there be a space to show off the best work going on. I.e. challenge winners etc? I think this can be an encouraging part of an art forum. With that said, I will say that I hate the current obsession with whole screen thumbnail pages. This is a forum primarly, and the simple design of the place is really great. It is easy to see threads and just hop around. Personally, I think Conceptart.org is awful at the mo, not just because of a dying community, but because it wants to be too many things. It tries to be Artstation, CG Hub, Art forum all at the same time. All I suggest, is that maybe there is some graphical display of top art work (perhaps as a very simply, rotating banner, similar to Polycount forums.)

Atm, all the finished challenge winners pretty much stay within their respective threads and depending on who sets up the challenge, sometimes a reward is given.

I agree, though. Bringing attention to the challenges beyond just signatures would probably help.

dead_parts wrote:Apologies if any of this has been answered already or is obvious, still lurking around the site threads and discovering things.

No problem!
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby chazillah » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:31 pm

Zearthus wrote:Yeah, the challenges somewhat went down the drain, for months now, same with the bootcamps.... so... yeah. I also do my best to comment/critique 5 to 10 posts a week at least, so that's roughly between 1 to 2 post a day.


i felt a little irked by this comment, but hopefully i can address this from a rational standpoint rather than an emotional one. apologies if the emotions do come out.

first, i do understand your sentiments. and i am sorry you feel this way. it is a small community and it's tough to keep alive for sure.
i will do a little explaining on my end;

1. i never intended to be a moderator, i simply volunteered to help with challenges since they weren't happening. i just wanted to help out my friend when i could.

2. i got a job in the middle of bootcamps. it took an entire day out of my week, at the minimum, to put bootcamps together. so continuing that while i had two jobs and a life was rather illogical

3. well put-together challenges (like undrala) also take up a good chunk of time, and as a result, died at the second job. undrala definitely took a good 5-6 hours. looking at that objectively, it's much better for my time to be practicing and working towards my goals (sorry)

one job has ended now, and i am hoping to find time to dedicate to challenges and reviving bootcamp.

however, it rubs my nerves wrong me when people make all of these things an expectation. it's free education and activities to begin with, and me (and Hannes and Pedro) have busy lives outside of the internet.

if anyone has a burning passion to make constant weekly updates in regards to challenges, let us know, but for now it seems like people have lives and we just have to deal with that.there are plenty of challenges on the internet.

permanoobs is a place to practice and critique one another. if there's additional content, that's great...good for me and pedro and whoever else for having time to offer that.

for now let's just do our thing and focus on what's most important...improving!!
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Zearthus » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:54 pm

Oh that's totally understandable Chazi. I wasn't here during those times of the challenge, so I didn't really know what happened. Rather I just checked when was the last time that was happening, since peoples came up with the point. But yeah, improving is what we should indeed be focusing on.

Thanks for the clarification :)!
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby chazillah » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:53 pm

Zearthus wrote:Oh that's totally understandable Chazi. I wasn't here during those times of the challenge, so I didn't really know what happened. Rather I just checked when was the last time that was happening, since peoples came up with the point. But yeah, improving is what we should indeed be focusing on.

Thanks for the clarification :)!


no problem. *_* i think we all care about this community and it actually frustrates me when i can't find the time to put in the effort. when life happens, looking after a forum just isn't viable

but! let's practice practice and i'll see what i can do about the challenges
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Re: Is this community death or WHAT!?

Postby Enydimon » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:11 pm

Gah, did I really double post back then? My apologies, I just remember the quote bugging up on me at the time so the edit might have accidentally double posted.

But yeah, one thing I want to add is that while you might have missed some of the challenges, the prompts are still there to take inspiration from. And the Bootcamp is still great for anyone new or anyone who wasn't able to do it the first time around. Challenges and Bootcamps are more like ways to enhance activity and closeness within the community, but ultimately it still comes down to us to create the actual culture of the community itself.
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