rezzealaux's sketchings

Brutal critiques and constructive feedback! Help others and get help back!

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Mon May 16, 2016 10:07 pm

I noticed that I'd been shrinking to such an extent that the width of the lead was a severe enough presence on even basic shape/silhouette exploration, and after thinking a bit found that it was due to me considering speed and progress as a matter of "pages". I'd always disliked people who, for example, in school who wrote 5 page essays with content that could be compressed to 1 page with no losses, so I'd been taking to making sure my sketchbook pages would not have a density problem. But I had forgotten that how I had handled it in school was to write or think up something that was essentially 7~9 pages and got down to 5 not by "compressing" the arguments, but by "trimming" them. The problem was never that I used too many words to say something, it was that I had too much to say. And those people who worked up to 5 pages did so not because they liked using more words, but because they didn't have enough to talk about.

So I drew larger and stopped actively caring about page count. And I've noticed a massive improvement in page-filling speed as a result. Though I have about the same number of pages as usual, and really average item size is still under a square inch, I definitely got through pages 2-4 significantly faster. The density of ideas is somewhat lower, but it feels much more comfortable, not just the mechanical drawing part but the thinking part as well.

Somewhere along the way these couple of weeks, somewhat related to the above, I learned/decided that on "learning", how well one does it is essentially just iteration speed. I've seen more famous people talk about it before but it never clicked much at all; "you don't learn if you win", "if you always win you'll never get better", "failing/losing means learning", "fail harder", etc. All of these are nice but aren't usable, except for the last one, which is good only for critical fundamental errors. Feng Zhu and some more traditional teachers talk about volume instead, which makes much more sense and definitely both immediately usable and verifiably true, but it was missing something. I think it was a combination of Feng Zhu videos, this video, and this video (and this video), doing some coding myself, and looking back at how I've gotten about learning drawing that I came to this conclusion. For a while I've known that advice and books and classes won't particularly help; it's logically true that having mentors is the greatest single external type of help you can get, but it's also logically true that you are incapable of evaluating how sound or true someone or something is if you don't already know about it yourself. Assuming you are going about things yourself and don't particularly care for taking big chances with artists who claim they know or can teach you things because literally-whether-you-admit-it-or-not 'reasons', then all you have is to try more things out until they click.

Progress is usually thought of as like "distance". "Look at how far you've come" etc.

x=v*t

v is more easy to visualize and optimize I think. Feng Zhu's 16 hours a day is not something I know where to start comprehending.

I should rename this thread to "rezzealaux's blogbook" or something.

16_04-26_05-16 P.A.jpg
16_04-26_05-16 P.A.jpg (403.8 KiB) Viewed 2175 times

16_04-26_05-16 P.B.jpg
16_04-26_05-16 P.B.jpg (435.11 KiB) Viewed 2175 times

16_04-26_05-16 P.C.jpg
16_04-26_05-16 P.C.jpg (407.69 KiB) Viewed 2175 times

16_04-26_05-16 P.D.jpg
16_04-26_05-16 P.D.jpg (442.93 KiB) Viewed 2175 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby nicboone » Wed May 18, 2016 12:10 pm

Hey Rez!

Thanks for the crit over on my sketchbook, Felt bad I hadnt been here in a bit! so here I go! There will be kind of a lot to say here, feel free to parse that out how you see fit though man!

On the subject of the 16 hour work day, and a few point you seem worried about earlier I have this to say;

I know many people working out there, and many people improving. I was once an art center student, and have even taught a few times. The most common thing I see that really gets me is how disingenuous our industry and fellow peers can be. Even ourselves. There seems to be this need to convince people of whatever, rather than to just love creating and improving on what we create. In the past people would say "you are just born with it" or "you are a genius" and I found that today people are trying to convince people that they are "always working".

In a way, I suppose they are. But maybe not in the way you would expect. What if I told you getting inspired was working? Just learning ANYTHING counts as work. Obviously, there will be times that we may use that as an excuse to to act on what we learned- but dont let this idea that you NEED to be doing blank amount of hours every day get to you. This, just like your art skill is something you train and you find balance for. If you work so much you burn out- something about how your working is wrong. When I was at ACCD, I remember seeing a LOT of this. A lot of people feel like they need to lie about how hard they work, or even their process. Outside of the whole photobashing thing - [which is a whole convo on its own related to this 'disingenuous' topic, and the art we want to make] - this is why mr.conceptart is a thing that is so funny and such a reflection on the bullshit of our industry. The system they have even over there is flawed and plain will not work for everyone. Many people who have made it did not kill themselves doing so.

So the question really becomes "how can I work harder and improve faster?" and later "am I improving my art because I want to make better art, or because I want [a job, fame, validation, etc]?". My thought on that is fairly basic honestly. Set a work timer. Account for 5 min breaks every 20 mins, or 15 min breaks every half hour. Whatever works. Breaks count as time worked at the office, you will need to eat, sleep, wash, stretch, and be healthy. You literally cannot make your best work if you are not feeling well and ready to tackle the world. Start there. Then plan your days hour by hour. Get interested in learning and finding a cool way to incorperate that into an idea. Act on them, even the sloppiest of thumbnails with little notes can go a long way.

There will come a time to work those long ass hours, and force yourself. You WILL need to do that. But that is not how we as artists make our best work. that is simply what we must sometimes need to do in order to sustain.

The simple truth in improving, in getting work, in being the best artist you can be is as follows;

The more art you do, the better you will get. Experiment, fail, embrace failure, and remain honest in your work.

Dont take shortcuts before you know the main roads by heart. Train your foundations, etcetc. Dont freak yourself out with how you should be doing whatever. Focus only on improving what you are currently doing, and if you find you are currently not doing something - ask why. If you arent inspired or arent drawing an idea, go find something that catches your interest. When you are inspired, do that, when you arent, study from life.


onto your work;

something I think may help you improve even faster than your commited practice to structre and linework is to step away from that and focus on some fundamentals. This may sound strange or rude, and i dont mean it to. You currently are in fact practicing a facet of that- structure. But that is only part of the equation! Try adding some shadow, a core, etc. If you find you struggle with this, working from life will help a lot. Photos will also help, just less so because these are kind of solved for you. A better option is figure drawing by video.

I have a feeling once you start seeing these more abstract shadow and light shapes, and trying to pull from those [while keeping your knowledge and practice of structure in mind] that you may suprise yourself with the result. A lot of what ends up rounding things ends up being that core shadow and not the structure itself - as line [as a concept] is an abstract idea and is not actually realistic. Balance those two ways of solving the same issue and youll find you can both draw from imagination, but also be able to recognize the patterns of abstract shapes to better replicate them as anchors in your own work.


Best of luck with the art journey!
I live on; Caffine, Hopes, and Dreams....

Nic's Website

Nic's art tumblr

Nic's Permanoob Sketchbook
User avatar
nicboone
Level 3: Hooded Seal
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:03 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:42 pm

@nicboone: Yeah everyone seems to want to [appear to] be a workaholic these days. Definitely an American thing, maybe some other places too, but not everywhere. At work we flew a guy over from Sweden to train us on something, and at lunch one day he commented that he didn't understand the concept; that in Sweden basically everyone's about always working less if possible. "Working less if possible" - they focus on the "if possible", and all Americans hear is "working less".

My job in general reflects this too. The management's metrics, which only care about total output, basically always put me at the bottom of the department. But I'm also the only one who does documentation, workflow improvements, general QOL, and I'm able to do this because I don't/refuse to think and do """""work""""" every literal moment. A lot of it is basically just removing pebbles from shoes - technically trivial, but impossible if you refuse to believe comfort contributes to productivity, and impossible if you don't stop running first.

Of course, management only ever hears "technically trivial". As a result, company is about 10 years old, but it runs like it's from 30 years ago.

I guess I should be thankful they're always fueling my motivation to do what I want, how I want, and not deal with their kind. One day I will quit, and short of complete revamp of internal policy, it'll be on or before Jan 5, 2017. The better I get here and the worse it gets there, the more that date moves.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

It appears from 5/17 to 5/30 I got addicted to Total Shogun, Top Gear, and Total Warhammer, and didn't do any work.

I visited Fanimecon for about half a day since that was all that was really required to get through all of Artist's Alley. There were a handful of people who had essentially irresistible stuff so I bought a bunch, but a firm majority of people there were quite good. I didn't think much of most of the drawing skill displayed; I stuck around to watch some artists start drawings and could not make sense of their methods. But everyone (except memorably one table, which was lineart only) was exceptionally good at color and composition thereof - things I don't know the first thing about.

Following nicboone's advice I started adding some shadows, because it appears some of them are actually as fundamental as line/form. Perhaps it's a defect in my visualization method, but I can't reliably see the true width of the neck unless it's not the same value as the chin/head. When referencing and comparing to traces I'd always underestimate; I tried adding shadow and suddenly the lines were much more accurate.

Also tried dating sections again. Felt better this time around.

16_05-17_06-14 P.A.jpg
16_05-17_06-14 P.A.jpg (393.19 KiB) Viewed 2140 times

16_05-17_06-14 P.B.jpg
16_05-17_06-14 P.B.jpg (424.56 KiB) Viewed 2140 times

16_05-17_06-14 P.C.jpg
16_05-17_06-14 P.C.jpg (376.77 KiB) Viewed 2140 times

16_05-17_06-14 P.D.jpg
16_05-17_06-14 P.D.jpg (429.24 KiB) Viewed 2140 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:26 pm

I didn't draw this past week.

I'm quitting my job in about a month.

I'm tired.

16_06-15_07-04 P.A.jpg
16_06-15_07-04 P.A.jpg (346.49 KiB) Viewed 2098 times

16_06-15_07-04 P.B.jpg
16_06-15_07-04 P.B.jpg (423.76 KiB) Viewed 2098 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:32 pm

Jesus christ this forum's code is annoyingly bad. Is the login timeout set at 5 minutes or something? Was some long heartfelt message and also some technical updates but whatever. I can't be bothered to type that all out again.

Business version:

- Quit job
- Split to 2 sketchbooks and 1 printer papers for workflow improvement
--- A: Main
--- B: Alternative/Detail
--- C: Pens, Exercises, Leftovers
- New sketchbooks don't agree with 100$ 6-year old all-in-one, replacing with flatbed for next time, smartphone pics this time
- Got Hi-Tec Cs and Microns. Intuitively prefer the Hi-Tecs, but I don't see what the big deal is. The lack of ability to make light lines just gets in the way when I try to construct things.
- I now have an eye into how to cure laziness and it involves "forcing" less thinking and more "forced" labor. Before job, average speed was terrible. During job, average speed was 4 pages / 2 weeks. After job, current speed is ~14 pages / 2 weeks. Life is great when I get to decide what to do and when to do it (given that I do it) and when to not to do it because there are problems to solve first (given that I work on solving them) and when to rest because i am tired at the moment (given that break length is reasonable), arbeit macht frei q.e.d.

I might start updating this every week because of the 10 attachment/post limit. Used to work at a rate of about 4 pages / 2 weeks so 2 week intervals were fine, but I have 13 full pages + 2 incomplete pages for these two weeks so I'll probably have to upload more frequently if I want to avoid multiple posts.

C 16_08_25.jpg
Copied Chromatinker's exercises. No idea what their original intent was.
C 16_08_25.jpg (241.12 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

C 16_08_26.jpg
C 16_08_26.jpg (257.34 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

C 16_08_26-28.jpg
C 16_08_26-28.jpg (322.95 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

C 16_08_29-09_01.jpg
C 16_08_29-09_01.jpg (236.99 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

B 16_08_25-27.jpg
reverse-engineering a specific eye type from a specific artist, eye profiles, eye space allotment on face/head
B 16_08_25-27.jpg (278.46 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

B 16_08_28-30.jpg
conflict resolution between different head-building methods, eye space allotment continued
B 16_08_28-30.jpg (218.45 KiB) Viewed 2056 times
Last edited by rezzealaux on Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:34 pm

editing because it seems like a good idea to also give a summary of what's happening on each page
A 16_08_18-20.jpg
regaining bearings after not drawing for forever, aiming for 3d and life
A 16_08_18-20.jpg (315.05 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

A 16_08_20-21.jpg
neck problems, referenced necks, leg problems, decide to try and separate masses as torso and butt-thigh
A 16_08_20-21.jpg (251.03 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

A 16_08_21-25.jpg
separate butt-thigh mass too difficult, resolve some issues by random attempts, references pushing for life, additional formulations on line learning theory
A 16_08_21-25.jpg (302.47 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

A 16_08_26-27.jpg
references pushing for life, decide problem with 3D-ing butts/thighs is not resolved
A 16_08_26-27.jpg (277.03 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

A 16_08_29.jpg
start off with front view, decide there's a bunch of bigger problems
A 16_08_29.jpg (268.96 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

A 16_08_30.jpg
explore possibility of ribcage width, head ratio, and waist outline problems. determined head was not an issue, solved waist
A 16_08_30.jpg (272.51 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

A 16_08_30-31.jpg
determine ribcage width problem is overblown
A 16_08_30-31.jpg (269.4 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

A 16_08_31-09_01.jpg
determine front views are fine, neck problems, solve neck problems in all standard (flat perspective) views
A 16_08_31-09_01.jpg (227.66 KiB) Viewed 2056 times

A 16_09_01.jpg
back problems, address back problems, start a bit on butt/thighs again
A 16_09_01.jpg (273.04 KiB) Viewed 2056 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:22 pm

Need to figure out how and when to take breaks, so I can regularize them, so I can optimize them.

Didn't think about this before either, but "visual diet" is probably a thing. The new illusion game had so many body sliders pushing sex appeal so far I just couldn't draw anything woman-shaped because I'd see women and not shapes. Happened upon a solution (Girls und Panzer), which involved women in shapes that I wasn't as familiar with.

A 16_09_05-07.jpg
between top and bottom half, worked on 1.5 C pages for basic form/perspective understanding of legs.
A 16_09_05-07.jpg (244.5 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

A 16_09_07-14.jpg
09/07 - identified a problem but forgot about it and just played around
09/14 - actually attempt to address problem of front/crotch
A 16_09_07-14.jpg (283.94 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

A 16_09_14-16.jpg
attempted various overall visualizations, distracted by tilted legs problem. acceptable initial shape solution found for both front and back pelvis/butt-thighs in standard position.
A 16_09_14-16.jpg (277.85 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

B 16_08_28-09_09.jpg
general facial features placement testing
B 16_08_28-09_09.jpg (256.88 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

B 16_09_10-11.jpg
general facial features placement testing. discover that left side is not as easy as ctrl+c/ctrl+v of the right side.
B 16_09_10-11.jpg (280.31 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

B 16_09_11-12.jpg
worked left side to acceptable levels. involved some rethinking and changing order of things.
B 16_09_11-12.jpg (242.78 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

C 16_08_29-09_05.jpg
C 16_08_29-09_05.jpg (389.48 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

C 16_09_05.jpg
Foreshortening practice, visualizing arms and legs.
C 16_09_05.jpg (354.95 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

C 16_09_06-11.jpg
Left-side-of-the-face-angles practice. The dots are measuring practice.
C 16_09_06-11.jpg (391.84 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

C 16_09_12-16.jpg
C 16_09_12-16.jpg (364.67 KiB) Viewed 2019 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:48 pm

don't know how to take breaks properly or how to work on it. i guess part of the problem is how i work involves a lot of little drawings so there's a lot more chances to wander off, but i don't think that addresses the actual issue.

did work on visual diet though.

worked on mental diet too, reading history is much more fun than scrolling boards and feeds. politics has much more meaning as economic, cultural, and (a result of) historical interactions. not at all same to the WELL I THINK EVERYONE SHOULDN'T X BECAUSE IT MAKES SOME PEOPLE FEEL BAD literal garbage peddled by journalists. found a site which visualizes major political borders in all years 3000BC forward; really helped out visualizing things.

A 16_09_19-21.jpg
various positions in twisting. backs and butt shapes.
A 16_09_19-21.jpg (296.56 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

A 16_09_22-26.jpg
more butts. lines which affect T H I C C ness identified. shoulder orientations exploration.
A 16_09_22-26.jpg (263.9 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

A 16_09_28-20.jpg
decide next problems are armpits (to attach upper arm) and knees (to complete thighs). go with knees first.
A 16_09_28-20.jpg (279.55 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

B 16_09_19-21.jpg
looked into issues with profile silhouette in animu heads with nose prominence and neck position. animu neck width limitations. animu face planes in 3/4 view.
B 16_09_19-21.jpg (279.56 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

B 16_09_22-23.jpg
animu eye plane(s) continued. flipping revealed more errors / less stability. decided on a few things to try out.
B 16_09_22-23.jpg (240.14 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

B 16_09_24-26.jpg
halfway down 9/24 randomly got the idea to draw what the planes of the face actually are given the current understanding, as opposed to what i "knew" they "should" be. it was one flat plane for the eyes and two simply connected from the jawline to the noseline. then i started from the opposite direction: with the nose and browridge. worked out nicely.

9/26 jawline control exploration.
B 16_09_24-26.jpg (265.46 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

B 16_09_27-29.jpg
face / head semi-independence exploration.
B 16_09_27-29.jpg (269.2 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

C 16_09_19-26.jpg
C 16_09_19-26.jpg (189.49 KiB) Viewed 1972 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:04 pm

More of a one week load than two; first week had health problems.

Did a lot of referencing, mostly because I wanted to fill up pages fast to have something to show, but also because I haven't done it in a bit and because it felt like all the stuff i'd been doing was very lacking in variety and imagination. Turned out to be true in the sense that I was drawing only very boring and stiff views (which was intentional, but i forgot I did it to simplify to the basics), but not true because most references I have are glamour shots of some kind. Ribcage-pelvis orientations are also very favored towards certain twists, bends, and camera angles. Most of them don't show legs, and when they do, it almost always cuts right below the crotch, and very few cut below the knees, which was what I was just working on. Then again, even when I go to those pose/gesture slideshow sites with intentionally odd camera angles and poses, it feels restrictive. Any time there's an explicit reference, it feels restrictive.

If I try to do odd angles on my own though it seems to turn out okay anyways. They basically never appear in my references, but the way I set it up and darken certain lines and emphasize certain curves makes them feel more like it belongs with my references rather than with gesture slideshows.

Faces are completely different somehow. It feels good the whole way through. Maybe because I haven't reliably made decent faces yet.

A 16_10_05-10.jpg
legs in three basic orientations in 3/4 view
A 16_10_05-10.jpg (295.96 KiB) Viewed 1920 times

A 16_10_10-11.jpg
final orientation work, then decided to use references because i am not very imaginative with poses
A 16_10_10-11.jpg (315.87 KiB) Viewed 1920 times

A 16_10_11-13.jpg
more references, but forgot to select only those with legs in them, and in general didn't actually focus on legs
A 16_10_11-13.jpg (292.17 KiB) Viewed 1920 times

A 16_10_13.jpg
A 16_10_13.jpg (208.31 KiB) Viewed 1920 times

B 16_10_11-12.jpg
referenced faces
B 16_10_11-12.jpg (312.52 KiB) Viewed 1920 times

C 16_09_19-10_06.jpg
legs in three basic orientations in 3/4 view
C 16_09_19-10_06.jpg (410.42 KiB) Viewed 1920 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:09 pm

doing more really helps a lot. not linearly either; the approximation of N hours being N times better than 1 hour or other physical measurements are true in the simplest sense that if you don't do work you can't get better, but the more you continuously work things will pop into your head that you'd never consider or think about if you only worked at it every once in a while. attempting to average it out and plot that N hours is c*N better or N^x better or whatever math formula is somewhat disingenuous; maybe it's the only way the beancounters can think but i'm pretty sure it's not as if god decides that there's a guaranteed chest of mental goodies after you get to a certain speed.

i think it comes from mental capacity being limited, poorly understood, and its erosion over time and diversity. with something entirely visual like drawing it's doubly true, but even outside i think the concept still holds because we don't do all our thinking in words. our strongest feelings and memories are difficult to explain, and many people who are exceptional at their job are much less than exceptional at teaching - how fleeting are our ideas and thoughts on things that we aren't sure we understand?

working quickly and consistently allows those ideas to stick around longer, appear multiple times, and maybe some of them solidify into something that is refinable and recallable on demand.

i wonder if there are other or better ways to procure or refine those ideas.

A 16_10_13-16.jpg
realized i never did any specific head~ribcage integration work
A 16_10_13-16.jpg (324.09 KiB) Viewed 1891 times

A 16_10_18-19.jpg
not sure what i needed to do so next so i revisited some things.
A 16_10_18-19.jpg (332.15 KiB) Viewed 1891 times

B 16_10_16-18.jpg
continued ref'ing faces until bottom center. recognized 1) some problem relating to lack of attention to negative space and 2) face components aren't just "mix and match", there's some design to them where some combinations are more correct than others
B 16_10_16-18.jpg (258.97 KiB) Viewed 1891 times

B 16_10_21-22.jpg
eye shape/curvature
B 16_10_21-22.jpg (274.39 KiB) Viewed 1891 times

B 16_10_24.jpg
eye shape/curvature, faceplates, jawline. some eyelash thickness near the end.

face with squigglies on both sides made me think on a slightly broader scale:

"everything feels a bit too round... a bit too indecisive? it's no there when ref-ing. not so much round as in "like a circle"... like a hundred minor cuts..."
B 16_10_24.jpg (274.57 KiB) Viewed 1891 times

B 16_10_25.jpg
despaired over two faces because they looked like no improvement from those over a year ago, until i did another ref'd face and remembered the 2015 ones were basically all referenced, and were done much slower using measurement rather than construction.

"not a seeing or drawing problem, [but] an envisioning and knowledge one."
B 16_10_25.jpg (286.24 KiB) Viewed 1891 times

B 16_10_26.jpg
back to the basics of eyeframes and faceplates, with some jawline here and there.
B 16_10_26.jpg (276.71 KiB) Viewed 1891 times

B 16_10_27.jpg
largely resolved negative space problem with reliable eyeframing to retain appropriate cheek shape for given angle. slight-turned face seemed to be improved to acceptable enough.
B 16_10_27.jpg (278.86 KiB) Viewed 1891 times

B 16_10_27-28.jpg
eye curvature for more extreme verticality
B 16_10_27-28.jpg (269.03 KiB) Viewed 1891 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:09 pm

there's a story behind this batch's stuff, short version is i wanted to recreate the magic from last year's November 8th piece, except this time with planning and without measuring/copying - and i failed. i made a lot of assumptions, a lot of which seemed to hold up, but at least one big one fell through at the last moment. longer version can be read here or here.

put in a lot more work than usual; 8 days of something like 9~10 hour days. also quite different work, went broad and light like a class rather than deep and meandering like usual. looking on it now it seems like i'm still terribly lazy and spending way too much time distracted for only being able to fill a page a day, and the number of pages used in general for each concept learned seems abhorrently low. but then again, how am i supposed to know how much time or mileage it "should" take to learn something? and it's still better than before. definitely not a total loss.

better 8 days of 9 hours at 75% efficiency of a failed drawing project than 8 days of 9 hours at 100% efficiency of playing videogames.

and i played four years of videogames in college...

B 16_10_30.jpg
first obvious order of business was to look into spacing of items on the face again, and the mouth, which I hadn't looked into at all previously
B 16_10_30.jpg (295.1 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

B 16_10_31-11_01.jpg
next was hair. remembered reading something about visualizing hair in blocks rather than strands; that memory and an artbook were all I had to go off of.
B 16_10_31-11_01.jpg (265.67 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

B 16_11_01.jpg
more hair work
B 16_11_01.jpg (317.07 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

B 16_11_02.jpg
pupil logic threw me off for a bit. after a seemingly perfect referenced face and a couple of decent looking ones in center-right, did some work on nose logic. difference in face based off of 1", 1.5", and 2"D circles was noted, but not noted well enough.
B 16_11_02.jpg (256.87 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

B 16_11_02-03.jpg
eyelash shape affects my sense of negative space heavily.
B 16_11_02-03.jpg (297.88 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

B 16_11_03-04.jpg
some light neckwork, then started grabbing what i thought were the essentials of each character.
B 16_11_03-04.jpg (264.47 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

B 16_11_05.jpg
more essentials.
B 16_11_05.jpg (290.62 KiB) Viewed 1857 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:19 pm

part 2

16_11_05 tablet practice.jpg
hadn't touched the tablet in basically a year. was able to get up to ~90% accuracy with no speed drop within a few hours - so long as i had an idea of what i wanted to do. pencil and paper retains a subconscious appeal; a sense of control and safety when going into unscoped unknowns.
16_11_05 tablet practice.jpg (456.03 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

16_11_06 tablet practice.jpg
16_11_06 tablet practice.jpg (171.94 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

16_11_07.1.jpg
this was started after a panic. i had started working on the big piece in earnest on 11_06, but had been hitting blocks I couldn't understand. a week of double workload with a deadline and unfamiliar tools and somewhat less unfamiliar topic, with high expectations. the problem was something to do with putting pieces together correctly on the face.
16_11_07.1.jpg (97.07 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

16_11_07.2.jpg
possible explanations of the problem:

1) pieces themselves aren't particularly accurate, and composing them compounds the problem
2) lack of experience / understanding / attention to what keeps each face looking like a particular face outside of full-frontal
3) it is not a trivial matter to imitate "styles"
4) my understanding of putting together a face is not compatible with the "styles" i intended to draw
16_11_07.2.jpg (115.34 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

nov8 main1.jpg
circles layout
nov8 main1.jpg (107.08 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

nov8 main2.jpg
layout after taking into consideration hairspace and shoudlerspace
nov8 main2.jpg (114.02 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

nov8 right staging.jpg
intended copies: character, series, style
saber, fate, official
zessica wong, aquarion evol, official
haruko kashiwagi, muv-luv, official
nov8 right staging.jpg (52.27 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

nov8 front staging.jpg
intended copies: character, series, style
meiya mitsurugi, muv-luv, official
kazusa touma, white album 2, official anime
angelise misurugi, cross ange, official
nov8 front staging.jpg (48.66 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

nov8 left staging.jpg
intended copies: character, series, style
saeko busujima, highschool of the dead, official anime
haruka morishima, amagami ss, official anime
c.c., code geass, creayus
nov8 left staging.jpg (64.41 KiB) Viewed 1857 times

ss (2016-11-07 at 09.08.46).jpg
i think this one turned out ok.

alternatively this is the one that ruined it all; after zooming out to thumbnail size it looked okay except with an unintentional tilt, and everything else looked completely off. eyes weren't the correct shape or size, jawline didn't match the character...

part of it is also i just don't know how to refine or adjust things. there's definitely the digital side of things too, but even on paper i've never pushed something to finality. lack of experience in editing or detailing specifics was probably part of why i felt so much pressure near the end.
ss (2016-11-07 at 09.08.46).jpg (48.27 KiB) Viewed 1857 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:50 pm

Traveled week of 21st, so another ~1 week load.

A 16_11_13.jpg
rethought my approach, thought i needed more volume of everything i'd learned so far in less time so maybe i can get around to doing something not just character-nonspecific linework in this lifetime - which means more integration and more attention to proportion controls
A 16_11_13.jpg (312.41 KiB) Viewed 1777 times

A 16_11_15.jpg
same idea for face
A 16_11_15.jpg (261.59 KiB) Viewed 1777 times

A 16_11_16.jpg
A 16_11_16.jpg (270.44 KiB) Viewed 1777 times

A 16_11_17-18.jpg
A 16_11_17-18.jpg (271.06 KiB) Viewed 1777 times

B 16_11_13-14.jpg
i like the idea of two/multiple sketchbooks for workflow, but it's difficult to really conceptually separate what goes into which book.
B 16_11_13-14.jpg (300.13 KiB) Viewed 1777 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:01 am

Had jetlag week of 28st, and noticed that if I pushed back the current post to the 17th I'd have the usual amount of time to presumably do about the usual of work and be able to round out the year with a 31st post. Then had debilitating health problems from 8th to 12th, so in the end I have basically the same reduced amount.

Played what was probably the best game I've ever seen during those five days though. "Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun" is phenomenal in every conceivable respect. Whenever I finally get around to dabbling with colors I'll be using screenshots from that game as reference.

A 16_12_03-04.jpg
continuation of thoughts from A 16_11_17-18
A 16_12_03-04.jpg (295.34 KiB) Viewed 1700 times

A 16_12_05-06.jpg
expansion into other face types
A 16_12_05-06.jpg (275.33 KiB) Viewed 1700 times

A 16_12_14-15.jpg
A 16_12_14-15.jpg (290.68 KiB) Viewed 1700 times

A 16_12_16.jpg
decided to remove the left/right and up/down variables to tighten up some other details.
A 16_12_16.jpg (257.48 KiB) Viewed 1700 times

C 16_12_02-14.jpg
left half is warmup from 12_02, right half is warmup from 12_14.
C 16_12_02-14.jpg (271.61 KiB) Viewed 1700 times


Not sure what's up with the bands. Seems to show up on some of the scans as a minor thing, then compression makes it terribly visible.
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:16 am

New Year's Resolution:
By year's end, be able to regularly release digital pinups.

A 16_12_19-22.jpg
identifying problems with down-face
A 16_12_19-22.jpg (297.33 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

A 16_12_23-27.jpg
decided the tilt values i was drawing at were basically sufficient for general purposes
A 16_12_23-27.jpg (255.19 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

A 16_12_27-29.jpg
profile, then attempted 7/8 faces, decided they would take a significant amount of time to solve, put them aside for now
A 16_12_27-29.jpg (293.24 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

A 16_12_30-31.jpg
head-torso integration, proportion refinement
A 16_12_30-31.jpg (276.68 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

C 16_12_19-31.jpg
various warmups after various longer-than-planned breaks.

whoever said sketchbooks make drawings feel too precious, they're probably right. but i do like my stuff in sketchbooks, so this is the compromise: if my first lines look terrible then there's no problem because it's not in the sketchbook, if they're not and i start working on problems then I'll want to put it in the sketchbook.
C 16_12_19-31.jpg (271.94 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

2016 resized.jpg
progress summary
2016 resized.jpg (418.32 KiB) Viewed 1625 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:56 pm

Travelling 13~18, so decided to cut it early instead.

I think I figured out what causes those scanlines that appear sometimes; it's a result of me pressing down on the sketchbook too hard. The lines only ever appear horizontally and always stronger near the top - which is where I press, because if I don't, then the tilt of the sketchbook as a result of it being too large (it's flush at the bottom, but spills over the scanner bevel at the top) makes the top of the page dark. That's my guess anyways. I don't know how scanners work, but the idea that the moving bar has lights which are calibrated to read correctly at a certain distance makes sense, and my pressing down too hard would make the glass deflect, so it all fits. And not pressing down with my whole forearm has solved the problem, so I'll presume that's what it is for the time being.

A 17_01_02-03.jpg
head-torso integration: standard back variations. figured out a few fun curves pretty quickly that seem to solve most problems, at least as long as the ribcage's long side is aligned with the y-axis of the page.
A 17_01_02-03.jpg (298.76 KiB) Viewed 1532 times

A 17_01_04-05.jpg
armpit clearing

revisit pelvis/thighs again, find the old methods were not up to par again.
A 17_01_04-05.jpg (279.66 KiB) Viewed 1532 times

A 17_01_06-09.jpg
explored abs a bit, settled that a bit but it wasn't the solution to the problem.

turned out to be largely caused by a misdecision that the upper leg corner was always below the crotch, something i got back when studying the skeleton (trochanter is below the frontmost point of the pelvis), and something that hasn't been questioned this whole time up until now, because it always just looked good enough. and now it doesn't, so it has been fixed from "this is the correct way to do thighs" to "this is one way to do thighs".
A 17_01_06-09.jpg (304.44 KiB) Viewed 1532 times

A 17_01_11-12.jpg
decided i'd do some arm/hand work instead of extending to the knee first like i did before.

hands are hard. i'm going to have to identify ranges i can safely ignore if i want to not get caught up chasing an ideal that isn't particularly relevant again.
A 17_01_11-12.jpg (279.39 KiB) Viewed 1532 times

C 17_01_02-12.jpg
C 17_01_02-12.jpg (238.88 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:54 pm

just out of curiosity yesterday i decided to look at my view counts. due to me lacking audiences everywhere else, my content being uncommentable for reasons unbeknownst to me, and my thread traversing the entirety of the first page every time by the time i get back to it for an update, which is also almost always the same timeframe (2 weeks), i had the thought that the counters on the images would reveal approximately how many people are interested in what i do. i'd had the idea before, but this time i bothered to do it.

date----total---iteration
may18---(last post by someone not me)
jun14---691---42
jul04---649---42
sep02---607---37
sep17---570---47
oct01---523---52
oct15---471---29
oct29---442---34
nov11---408---80
nov26---328---77
dec17---251---75
jan01---176---93
jan12---083---83

it appears with my nov11 set i gained an audience of about 40 people, doubling the previous number, and they don't appear to have gone away since. or, alternatively, 40 is the base number of people who click through everything on permanoobs, and i gained 40 actual interested people. 40 as base doesn't seem too inaccurate looking at some other unpopular sketchbooks, 20~40, then again 28 could be google and bing pinging once a day.

or maybe the base 40 got twice as interested and decided to all click twice on my thread rather than once. or maybe 2 guys got 20 times as interested. Or maybe it's just one guy clicking on my thread 80 times. Maybe that guy is... me!

then again if we look back to the thread's first page and look through iteration view length, seems like at some point i had 100~200 people. maybe i pissed someone well-connected off? disappointed a lot of people because i had something interesting but was making no progress? just the multiplicative effect of having comments? and then there's the part where the first page has about 1300 more views than the oldest post on the second page, because ?????.

but all in all i'm pretty confident at least ~20 people got interested around nov11.

hopefully y'all stick around.

In other news

I think I figured out how drawing is giving me visual fatigue.

It's because when viewing women casually I view in a ratio that's basically square (1:1): the face fills it up nicely, the tits would include the deltoids, legs would include negative space on each side. To make it more clear, "legs" would never appear "by themselves".

When I study about them to put them on the page, I have to focus on the actual contours. Legs are no longer "1:1 squares with 3:1 legs and a bunch of negative space", they're just "2x 3:1 legs". Legs which are still considered in relation to all the other body parts and the negative space too of course. But several important steps happen which focus only on what's coming out of the tool at that moment. And, since I like things long and slender when they're in 1:1 view, and I now have to see them in 3:1 view for extended periods of time, it's an overload.

I want to say it's like painting. Viewing finished paintings, most color is subtle and blended into each other. Studying for drawing is looking at a painting and continually thinking about the colors as they were in their purest form before they got put on the canvas. Continually upping the contrast, hardening all the edges, sharpening all the textures... but, I don't know the first thing about painting, so maybe i shouldn't use that analogy around people who do know the first thing about painting.

I suppose the easiest change in pace without a change in subject matter would be to draw chibis, or some other figure type with body part proportions closer to 1:1 themselves.

A 17_01_23-24.jpg
getting more used to my preferred workflow, which seems to always involve figuring out the key 2d curves/insertions in the primary views first. going from primary to 3d was hard though, much harder than i expected, though in retrospect maybe about as hard as it should be.

Burne Hogarth says the palm should be thought of as a scoop, or a spatula, with width narrower and height taller at the base, and concave on the palmside. I like this way of thinking about it, but using it as an initial setup looks impossible.

Tried out my old LS3 (contour first) way and it seemed to hold up okay, at least for now with little attention paid to fingers. I'm starting to think "wireframe first" or "shapes not forms" was never meant for me. It has some truth to it in terms of drawing in my head, but drawing on the page it's terrible.
A 17_01_23-24.jpg (315.58 KiB) Viewed 1444 times

A 17_01_25-26.jpg
Same idea with arms, and then upper legs. There's some forms I know are very attractive in the forearm and the thighs but putting them down at onset seems to be the wrong idea.

Hogarth has a lot of squareish cross-sections to his arms and hands but I don't know if they're there for setup or there just for the reader, and he doesn't show how he actually draws them in the books
A 17_01_25-26.jpg (288.97 KiB) Viewed 1444 times

C 17_01_23-27.jpg
After feet (and maybe hair) rendering is next, and I'd decided to do it digitally, but since I bought some Copics and had some space left over for the batch I tried them out here. I presume leaking is not supposed to happen on better paper, but it still taught me some things. Pencil and marker are very different tools, and so are all the digital brushes and programs.

So the next problem is not only rendering, but rendering *and* tools *and* digital.
C 17_01_23-27.jpg (265.09 KiB) Viewed 1444 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby oshred » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:03 pm

Hey man, how's it going? :] Came across your sketchbook and I was kinda blown away by the amount of sketches you've got! It's pretty cool, the amount of work you're putting into all these little things. I hope you'll forgive me if I just scanned them and didn't read all your notes, there's just a lot.
Is it okay to ask what you're aiming for with all these? Are you hoping to make a project of some kind or are the sketches an end in themselves? I'm asking because I noticed you didn't have any illustrations testing your knowledge (if you have and I just missed them, I'm sorry!)
User avatar
oshred
Level 1: New Zealand Fur Seal
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:09 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:09 am

Hello oshred.

My new year's resolution is "By year's end, be able to regularly release digital pinups", but up until new year's 2017, my point has been to "draw more today than yesterday, draw better today than yesterday, and reduce the amount of time between drawing sessions". My main problem historically wasn't what I wanted to draw, but that I didn't draw - a couple of months after starting I was still only touching it once every two weeks. Just pencil to paper was hard enough, so I chose one subject to do sketches on, and didn't worry about anything else.

There's two to four times where I go beyond the mass iterations and try to put something like a piece together, all fanart of heads of characters, and each time I did it I learned a lot about how I had a lot left to learn. But at this point the sketches have become an end to themselves, it's become too fun just making all these little points of technical progress, and now that's the main problem. You're right, I'm not testing myself at all. This month I've tried to stop my infinite circling around body parts and finally start using them together, but didn't manage to complete integration (still need to do feet).

I have other lofty ideas, but digital, rendering, composition, etc. and how to integrate them into my routine are on my plate for now.

For me it's overwhelming how much other artists seem to have on their plate. Drilling too much is a problem too, but one I find easier to work with.
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby oshred » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:57 am

Hey @rezzealaux, thanks for sharing yourself with me. :]

I was wondering what all these sketches amounted to and I was hoping to see the fruit of your labors in a finished piece somewhere, but if that's in the future I'll look forward to it. I know how easy it is to get trapped in a loop of endless studies and practice sketches though, they require discipline but not the same kind of commitment an illustration does. It's tough stuff, but in my experience they're more revealing of your progress and improvement than.. well, more studies I guess haha. I think "the best way to learn how to do something is to actually do it" is pretty worthwhile advice.

Are you planning to upload any sketches of the pinups you're planning? I'm a pretty big fan of content like that myself :]
User avatar
oshred
Level 1: New Zealand Fur Seal
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:09 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:33 pm

Hello oshred.

Your wording is interesting and made me think about it a little bit. "[Sketches] require discipline but not the same kind of commitment an illustration does"... in a general sense, aren't "discipline" and "commitment" synonyms? Certainly spending hours on one piece rather than hours on a few dozen is different, but I wonder if one can't get there on approximately the same path. For example, someone could be trying to draw a foot, spending hours and hours drawing and redrawing it - difference for me is I draw a bunch of them instead. In the end the other guy would have something larger and less evidence of all the attempts and re-dos, but in the mind wasn't it the same distance travelled? It's similar to the question of when a piece is finished: heads and faces that take me about a minute to set up and a minute or two more to put more touches on it took me hours back when I had less of an idea of what I was doing.

This batch I drew a bit larger and drew a few more things at the same time in the same piece because of some other problems I need to tackle, so my sketches look more "finished" than before, but that jump wasn't too uncomfortable outside of my hand being used to a 1"x1" space. The level and quality of detail and of proportions that showed up were expected, but that was because that was about as much as I'd developed them before. I didn't draw a bunch of them back-to-back so it wasn't as obvious what problem I was tackling, but it was with general proportions. Abs too small, neck too thick/long, delts not wide enough... but if I step back for a moment and untrain my eye a bit, they all look more "finished". The problem-solving direction is hidden up by the details, which I put there because from my perspective as a worker rather than a viewer, "I need to work on them anyways so why not do it at the same time?"

If there's some other meaning to doing more finished pieces or illustrations other than "step outside your comfort zone, dedicate yourself to something, and maybe you'll learn something" I don't know it.

I'm 98% sure "step out of your comfort zone" is a meme; one of those pieces of advice which is not technically untrue from an informed outsider's perspective but absolutely and utterly useless to the person it's being given to, more akin to a confession than a piece of advice in that it's said for the benefit of the speaker and not the audience. As far as I can tell, me attempting some fully colored illustration with clothing and objects or whatever right now is as pointless as putting a 5 year old on 700c wheels. Definitely outside the comfort zone, but I'm pretty sure it's also definitely outside the range where it's a valuable experience. It's like with gestures. I keep seeing advice on how absolute beginners should do gesture first because of [reasons]; when I did it it infuriated me but now it almost makes some sense. I needed some basic understanding of body parts and proportions first. Maybe some other people see lines of action or whatever else first, but I have other sensitivities. I can't help but think that the whole "step outside your comfort zone" stuff is at best more of that. It's true that if I aim to make pinups then the best practice is to make pinups, but it's not like I'm unaware of certain elephants that I need to tackle first.

As for sketches of pinups, other than the kind of stuff I'll be uploading as usual, I don't have any plans. I'll package it accordingly at that time, but on the same principle of expanding rather than stepping out of comfort zone above, my workflow will be the same for finished pieces as it is will be here. Which might not be the same as it is now, I might learn some things that change this or that, but ideally pinups or whatever "finished" pieces I do in the future will fundamentally be the same as with sketches - only difference being amount of time put in.

A 17_02_02-07.jpg
A 17_02_02-07

still not entirely sure how to set up directionality of foot. if i put down some flat surface it screws up the rest of the foot looking at all decent, if i don't then it might point in a direction i didn't particularly intend.

wasn't feeling well at all, need to see a doctor, hormones were all over the place and i actually didn't feel bad at all for once for not drawing. but i forced a quarter page out a day.
A 17_02_02-07.jpg (323.66 KiB) Viewed 1377 times

A 17_02_08-10.jpg
A 17_02_08-10

these feet felt a lot easier to do. i don't know what i'm going to do with feet from a standing position; there's a perspective problem too but main thing is i don't know what a foot is supposed to look like from up here.

spent a while writing up thoughts on 2/9 on what to do next.

feel somewhat uncomfortable drawing larger because it feels like it's a waste of space and i "could" be making more progress in that space rather than basically "cheating" and having more filled up pages than i "should". i think it's about right that what i've worked on so far didn't actually need larger than 1"x1", but i do need practice putting them together and i can't do that in smaller than ~2"x2".

also somewhat uncomfortable because i've been doing long-term single-subject focus for ~2 years and this is going to be the first time it appears i'll have to relinquish it.
A 17_02_08-10.jpg (284.27 KiB) Viewed 1377 times

C 17_02_02-10.jpg
C 17_02_02-10

if i'm going to be drawing larger i think i might start doing a quota of space drawn per day rather than hours a day or days a week. i don't think days a week will change even if i don't pay attention, and hours don't seem like they're going up, so maybe i need to think about it a bit differently.
C 17_02_02-10.jpg (206.65 KiB) Viewed 1377 times

D 17_01_29-30.jpg
D 17_01_29-30

originally done on white background. chose SAI over PS and CSP due to simplicity and familiarity; enough things to deal with already, don't need more things to think about.

from going over CTRL+PAINT library the basics of rendering/digital appear to be blobs, blending, edges, layers, and masks (whereas the basics of pencils/paper are "lines and scribbles"). colors seem to be rendering, except with one other very complicated dimension.
D 17_01_29-30.jpg (389.22 KiB) Viewed 1377 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby Moe » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:07 am

I like how cluttered your sketches look. For me I think doing "finished" pieces helps tailor your studies. You might find out that you're spending too much on certain areas while you're neglecting more important areas. For example, let's say you want to draw environments. So you go okay I need to learn perspective, lightning, values, color etc, and you grab a scott robertson book and end up studying all these complex perspective stuff that you don't really need while neglecting other areas like composition and stuff.

In my case, I tried working on a comic and if you read comics you'll notice that characters are often drawn from different angles from the same pose and most of my figure studies involved just simply drawing poses and not really practiced rotating them from different angles and so just that little comic attempt made me aware that there are certain areas that I need to work on more. There is also an argument to be made that you don't necessarily need to do "finished" pieces to be aware of your weaknesses. Like you don't need to do a complete illustration to be aware that you need to work on hands for example.

Regardless of what approach you decide to use, One thing I strongly recommend if you aren't doing already is to make sure you get a lot of imagination practices done along side with your studies. It will make the creative process later much much more easier.
User avatar
Moe
Level 6: Mediterranean Monk Seal
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:37 am

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby Kikindaface » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:19 pm

crazy amount of studies here, very inspiring, love the way you're thinking, too much text unfortunately, i'd rather spend this time drawing ! but grasped the main thing ! would love to see a finished ( or nearly finished ) pinup of yours ! keep it up !
User avatar
Kikindaface
Level 10: Ribbon Seal
 
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:10 pm
Location: somewhere in space.

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:56 pm

Hello, Moe and Kikindaface. Thank you for stopping by and posting your thoughts.

Moe:
I completely agree. That's how I think of the advantages for "finished" pieces. I think what I actually need to do is be okay with unfinished pieces. Like the famous story about WW2 planes coming back with holes and statistician saying more armor needed to go where there wasn't holes, my problem with too many drills might be that I'm chasing the idea of being finished too much rather than too little. Just as a mental exercise: if I could choose to be perfectly good at anime faces with pencils forever, now, at the cost of never being able to draw using something other than a pencil, I'd do it. Which is probably not the right choice.

I think I'm doing imagination practices, though maybe you have a different idea? Generally speaking if I have something I'm trying to copy I'll mark "R"/"~R" to its bottom right. If I'm copying one of my older sketches, it's "SR". I might miss some, either due to forgetting or thinking the context should obviously show which ones are and aren't referenced, but generally speaking, the unlabelled stuff is from my head. Or recently, with the help of my little figma mannequin, which I don't count, but maybe I should somewhere.

Kikindaface:
Sorry about the text volume. I tend to be long winded; it's something I've found difficulty cutting shorter.

--- --- ---

Apologies for the late and lacking post. 13th~22nd I had even more health problems, visited ER on the 19th. Was difficult to sleep and to seriously spend energy on anything. Past couple of days found something not drawing extremely interesting.

I don't want to criticize myself too harshly for making excuses if they're not excuses, but I am definitely more high-maintenance than I need to be. I should be able to draw even if I can barely think; there's a lot to practice that are basically only motor skill and require negligible mental energy. 7 days drawing at "25%" efficiency is only slightly worse than 2 days of drawing at "100%" efficiency.

2 months used, meaning there's 5 more equal chunks of time left. The rest of the way won't be as familiar of territory as what I've been treading.

A 17_02_13-14.jpg
I keep finding that there are things that I need to practice more. I thought my practice of that kind of face was pretty set after I did a whole page of them, but it turns out that just turning it slightly or flipping it horizontally made it difficult. There's definitely more controls to the face I haven't mastered yet.

It's definitely fun to do this kind of practice, but I'm not particularly looking to do animation, so I have to think about how I'm using my time more.
A 17_02_13-14.jpg (275.48 KiB) Viewed 1191 times


A 17_02_17-26.jpg
17th I just forced some lines on a page, wasn't really thinking about what I was doing.

24th did a little bit and did the rest on 26th. So far I've been working with the ribcage tilted up and back; here I poked around various ideas on tilting it down and forward.
A 17_02_17-26.jpg (277.56 KiB) Viewed 1191 times


B 17_02_13-17.jpg
Hogarth's book seemed overly complicated and something felt wrong about it. Followed some image probably out of some book, which said there were also a lot of "types" of folds, but after doing 4 of them it didn't really ring with me either. So I just started copying examples instead.

Haven't thought about skin folds at all but at least the basic rules of clothing/drapery don't seem too complicated. Combinations of clothes are super complicated though, so I'm probably going to stick with a small set of them that cover a decent variety of shapes, materials, and textures to minimize number of necessary revisitings.
B 17_02_13-17.jpg (279.55 KiB) Viewed 1191 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:55 pm

A 17_02_27.jpg
- trying to get myself out of grinding one thing specifically for too long
- sure can fill up a lot of space if i don't have to use my brain to imagine the idea first
A 17_02_27.jpg (302.86 KiB) Viewed 1078 times

A 17_02_28.jpg
in center-left, "A" was attempting to do "gesture" while "B" was a method i was more comfortable with.

i feel like chasing the idea of "gesture" is a pointless endeavor.
A 17_02_28.jpg (293.28 KiB) Viewed 1078 times

A 17_03_06-08.jpg
A 17_03_06-08.jpg (319.27 KiB) Viewed 1078 times

B 17_03_01-02.jpg
drapery was the final key.

also seems way too easy, i feel like i'm being tricked. granted i haven't tried doing it from imagination yet, but general competency in it doesn't seem to be more than a few days away.
B 17_03_01-02.jpg (257.87 KiB) Viewed 1078 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:43 pm

Another month gone, 3 equal chunks left. Probably less than three because I'm currently a NEET; I don't draw enough to call this "training" and no one would count it if I did because I'm not giving anybody money in the process. Last week was addicted to a videogame which was a complete waste of time, this week was addicted to another videogame, but I don't regret a second of it: NieR:Automata.

I feel like I'm continuously taking two steps forward, two steps back. In different directions to be sure, I'm not completely retreading the same ground, but it feels like it. Once upon a time I was frustrated I couldn't make anything at all decent, now my woe is that pinup poses alone can't tell any sort of larger, important, moving, or memorable story. In perspective I shouldn't be worrying about this kind of stuff at all since I haven't even touched rendering or composition or a bajillion other things... and if I could do it over and choose between going straight drawing webcomics or scenes or other "finished pieces" at the skill level I started with versus the thing I've been doing, I'd still choose the thing I've been doing.

I probably just find things to complain about. As an excuse to not try so hard? Definitely a mindset. Not sure if it's a "choice", but also not sure how I'd change it. Though with all that in mind, "how" is probably the wrong thing to think.

Probably need a more rigid schedule that I question less.

A  17_03_13-18.jpg
intended problem to inspect was arms and legs' proportions during foreshortening.

distracted because i noticed there was yet another axis i hadn't thought about for the torso.
A 17_03_13-18.jpg (287.27 KiB) Viewed 957 times

A 17_03_18-24.jpg
found a solution to left-right bending, then spent the rest of the page finding the standard solutions to front/back + forward/backwards in all cardinal directions from above, level, and below. couldn't do it for bending. made up a reason to not pursue further - bending left/right is generally only seen from level.

twisting i don't seem to have too big a problem with, at least for upright.

i set a goal for myself but it's difficult to stop habits. or perhaps it's tendencies. i can't draw torsos upside down, and certainly at some point i'd like that ability, but very few instances have people upside down. this i can recognize as not particularly necessary to learn, esp. when i -still- haven't gotten to rendering. but what about all this backwards/forwards bending? was this unnecessary too?

setting realistic goals is hard. setting cutoffs is even more difficult.
A 17_03_18-24.jpg (344.4 KiB) Viewed 957 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:44 pm

This time it looks like I might actually get to do full integration without disintegrating into drilling various body parts. Assuming same workrate and assuming my predictions on my schedule are as accurate as they've been for the past two months, next month will have drawings that don't look anywhere near as WIP as stuff does currently.

I was thinking about having spent too long drilling all these various things again, and certainly I could've spent more hours where I didn't, but in terms of what happened during the time that I did spend I don't think too much could've changed, at least without actually having a good mentor of some kind, and I don't know where to find those anyways. My drilling needed to happen the way it did because that's how I feel about drawing. I just don't find values or color as important as I do having decent basic linework, and parts that look at least approximately correct (to me) are more important than full bodies that don't. So even if "someone else" could've made finished fanart pieces by this amount of time spent, I couldn't have.

Wonder if the rest of the way is going to be harder or easier. I've felt it now and again but other than a fairly specific set of ideas about the female figure and female anime face, I don't think I have much taste. Having a taste has fenced my path - guided or hindered, depending. Copying drapery and hair so far it seems like it'll be easier, but I also have less of an idea of whether it looks terrible.

A 17_03_27-29.jpg
Moving down to integration on knees, run into hips and thighs problems again.
A 17_03_27-29.jpg (295.31 KiB) Viewed 779 times

A 17_03_30.jpg
I seem to have a very specific idea of what hips and thighs should look like, even though I save basically everything I can't seem to find any references which come to the sort of detail I have in my mind. Most of them are actually just really bland. There's a few artists who've drawn a few images which are close, but tracing them didn't give me the right feeling at all. Maybe it's primarily a thing which shows up in rendering?
A 17_03_30.jpg (328.96 KiB) Viewed 779 times

A 17_04_01-02.jpg
Knees weren't too hard to simplify I suppose. I don't think I care to make them much more realistic; I've never seen an image of an attractive knee with more angles and curves than I do in fictional knees.
A 17_04_01-02.jpg (293.63 KiB) Viewed 779 times

A 17_04_03-08.jpg
Putting feet on the page was harder than looking at them a few days afterward, which told me that it was more of a mental image problem than failing to understand what forms exactly composed a foot.

Turns out those problems were largely 1) lack of a ground plane, 2) i visualize feet in pairs so one foot alone will basically always look wrong, and 3) needed an additional line / two corners to indicate a toe thickness and that the foot didn't end in an actual wedge. Identifying these problems were harder than solving them.
A 17_04_03-08.jpg (330.68 KiB) Viewed 779 times

B 17_03_24-04_01.jpg
A few of the things near the top right were from tutorial images that talked about hair; had a few other images but they were all about very specific details and none about overall shapes/forms which lead to attractive hair, so I just copied a bunch of images instead and tried out various simplifications.

It was pretty fun. Simpler than I expected, at least so far. Probably need to make sure with a few more extreme angles, most of these are pretty flat. Then will need to draw from imagination along with drapery; have a few reference characters in mind which encompass what I think are a healthy chunk of possibilities in all respects with regard to hair and drapery. And since hair and drapery only look generally different in different poses or camera angles, it'd be integrated with the rest of the stuff at the same time.
B 17_03_24-04_01.jpg (300.93 KiB) Viewed 779 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:08 am

Digital lines are a pain. Asked around and was told there's no trick to it, I just have to grind a couple thousand curves through pre-established points. Which sounds about right, since the answer can't possibly be vectors, but I still don't like it. Means that the problem here is mostly one of mechanical finesse rather than any sort of mental refinement.

Integrating down to calves and feet, though, is. Using head length as a unit the full body is ~2 units wide and ~8 units tall, or 1:4 aspect ratio. I've primarily been working in 1:1 to about 1:2.5; doing something so long just feels weird. There's also the part where if I want to make it large enough to have the most basic of details in eyes and eyebrows so that 0.5mm doesn't trip over itself, a 1:4 means I'd need to take up ~2/3 of the page's height.

That being said, this is also not a problem one'd naturally associate with "learning to draw". Just as digital lining is a problem between tablet and chair, foot integration is a problem between anatomical understanding and mark-making instrument. Neither are my favorite kind of problem.

Problems, problems, problems.

A 17_04_10-13.jpg
Wasn't too clear what I needed to be doing. Saw that pupils/irises were on my to-do list,
A 17_04_10-13.jpg (267.63 KiB) Viewed 611 times

A 17_04_14-16.jpg
I always thought of the long eye type as simpler, but somewhere along the way the tables flipped. Not because I got particularly worse at them, but because I got better at the other type, and I started to know what to look for.

Long type is more difficult because of the nose, which has lower tolerances because it's more realistic.
A 17_04_14-16.jpg (277.7 KiB) Viewed 611 times

A 17_04_17.jpg
Didn't end up being all too difficult. Just took a bit of space.
A 17_04_17.jpg (269.52 KiB) Viewed 611 times

A 17_04_18.jpg
Adding the head and eyes really tightens the tolerances.
A 17_04_18.jpg (284.17 KiB) Viewed 611 times

A 17_04_18-21.jpg
Had the thought of enforcing some sort of minimum level of detail; if it's just a head it should detail hair, eyes, expressions, if it's just a torso the hands should be there or at least some drapery. There seems to be an infinite number of things to refine and since that's my "comfort zone" mixing them in a bit before and after bigger ones feels pretty nice.

Let's see if I can't make myself put more things together this time.
A 17_04_18-21.jpg (267.27 KiB) Viewed 611 times

B 17_04_18-20.jpg
Started with looking closer at some silhouettes, then looked at motion instead.
B 17_04_18-20.jpg (245.71 KiB) Viewed 611 times

D 17_04_21_2.jpg
Took ~10 minutes to go from nothing to final on paper.
Took ~100 minutes to go over only this much in lines digitally. Did some lines, then erased and refined, almost every line had its own layer, the jawline had four... I was originally planning to do hair but no way in hell was I going to touch it with this complete lack of speed.

Definitely missing something.
D 17_04_21_2.jpg (115.79 KiB) Viewed 611 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby crankshaft » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:57 am

Hey man great stuff. This is a great way to get lots of mileage. I remember proko said this form of practice is excellent bc it really hammers the knowledge and builds coordination.

Regarding your posts I would try and not over think things too much. I'm bad for that as well but I found that it really slows you down. I've learned faster by simply jumping in and making mistakes rather than analyzing every step. Try to also reduce all the distractions in your life. Hide things like your games and phone.

Hope this helps.
crankshaft
Level 10: Ribbon Seal
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:18 pm

Re: rezzealaux's sketchings

Postby rezzealaux » Sun May 07, 2017 12:30 am

Hey crankshaft, thanks!

I try not to think too much. The stuff I type out here is more reflection after the fact, an effort to record thoughts for the future when I want to get an idea at a glance of what I was thinking at a certain time. But I think I do need to think more, at least in some ways. I'm too perfectly content just grinding whatever tiny anatomy thing I fancy that day, and I need to push myself towards things that at least to everyone else look like complete pieces.

A 17_04_29-30.jpg
Last time I had decided to try and put hands into everything, but it became obvious quickly that my understanding of hands was limiting enough that there weren't many positions where I could expand much at all past a stick figure. So I explored hands a bit more.
A 17_04_29-30.jpg (314.27 KiB) Viewed 381 times

A 17_05_01-06.jpg
Then I lost sight of what I was doing. But I learned some things I'd been wondering about for a while in a pretty short timeframe, so I guess it was okay.

Long timelapse more because I was playing a weeklong session of Total Shogun with a friend.
A 17_05_01-06.jpg (286.18 KiB) Viewed 381 times

B 17_04_24-25.jpg
More hair and drapery drilling from imagination.

Hair shape language/constraints don't entirely make sense.

Doing too few drapery folds.
B 17_04_24-25.jpg (279.64 KiB) Viewed 381 times

D 17_04_23 compressed.jpg
I was told that I needed to do a bunch of lines and curves through points, so that's what I did.

It wasn't fun. I didn't learn much either.
D 17_04_23 compressed.jpg (504.51 KiB) Viewed 381 times

D 17_04_24.jpg
Watching an Ilya Kuvshinov video on his drawing process revealed to me that /ic/'s fawning over CtrlPaint had led me to believe the wrong thing: quick lines are NOT the holy grail, clean lines are NOT done by "temp layers", drawing through, erasing, and they sure as hell aren't done via vector or shape tools.
D 17_04_24.jpg (364.38 KiB) Viewed 381 times

D 17_04_25.jpg
Testing out different stabilizer levels.

Difficult to control decline in pressure level across a stroke.
D 17_04_25.jpg (477.05 KiB) Viewed 381 times

D 17_04_28_2-30.jpg
Not shown: tracing over a few hairstyles to get a better idea for shape language/constraints.
Also not shown: D 17_04_28_1, where I tried to draw something from reference and it went horribly wrong. When looking at reference my hand-eye coordination is on autopilot, and I really needed to calibrate it with a few faces first, faces being the best choice for calibration because they have the tightest natural tolerances.

Right before the first referenced hair, I decided to tape paper on top of my tablet.

Absolutely the best decision.

Tried out blobbing out values in the bottom right just to fill out the page. Interesting feeling, at least while adding. Not sure how to go about subtracting, or how to add lines to it.
D 17_04_28_2-30.jpg (416.89 KiB) Viewed 381 times

D 17_05_02-06.jpg
Ctrl+H is God.

More faces. Feels fine now. Last one was way outside my skill range; animu faces with realistic proportions are wildly different from actual realistic faces in ways I haven't bothered to understand.

I'm also not entirely sure when which lines should have more weight. I can figure it out if I stop and think about it, but I don't really want to stop and think about it. They don't feel sloppy or messy anymore, which is more important.
D 17_05_02-06.jpg (260.03 KiB) Viewed 381 times
[Yukio] Mishima had been asked, “What is the passion that drives you?”
He replied, “Being brought up during the war and being told at the age of 20 that everything until then had been a mistake — that’s all.”


[Sketchbook]
[Blog]
[FB]
User avatar
rezzealaux
Level 4: Crabeater Seal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:40 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Sketchbooks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest