Eny's sketchbook

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Enydimon » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:29 pm

mana - Haha, yeah I could see how she'd come off that way.

crankshaft - Yeah I've been doing that on paper, but I've yet to grasp it entirely yet. I understand the structure but not how to make it look right yet. Everything still feels too flat.

Just keep drawing and trying to finish things. The more you learn, the faster you'll be able to apply it because you're not noodling around as much. A lot of this stuff I'm producing I'm not even sure I'd want in my portfolio, but I'm sure if I can just put out a lot of work I'll have more favourites to choose from.
---
Mostly worked on rendering the Zarya piece this week. I think I'm almost done with the body, just have to do some adjustments, add the weight, and the background. The perspective grid doesn't feel right so I'll probably revisit. Feeling really good about my output in general, though. I want to produce a lot more.

Thought about not posting anymore of the Pandaren commissions here since they don't really reflect the direction I want my personal art to go in, but I feel like I'm really starting to improve with this colouring style and it pads the posts nicely when I don't have much else to show, rofl.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:13 am

Hey man great work. Not much crit, maybe for the zarya guy change his facial expression to match the situation. Right now he looks too calm to be lifting all that weight. Ie have his eyes partly closed and his face tensing up. You could also put some veins around his neck popping up to accentuaute the action.

For the orc 48 guy, his right arm, those armor plates don't make much sense from a function standpoint. I would leave a gap around his elbow so that both parts of the arm can move more freely.
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Enydimon » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:10 pm

crankshaft - She's actually a woman. She's just double buff because on top of being a weightlifter she's also a bodybuilder. I think I kind of agree with you on the face, though. I've known weightlifters who don't have much of a lifting face in that position, one that even smiles throughout the entire lift, but to sell the image better I should probably fiddle around with some tension in the face. I'll probably handle that after I solve this perspective issue, though.

And yeah I agree. I didn't have any access to ref when I was doing that and was mainly trying to hash out the general design, and then go back and research to clean it up further.
---
Mostly worked on the Zarya piece last week. Everything else is from the last two days. Went snowboarding on the weekend so I was unable to post an update.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Zipfelzeus » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:37 pm

Heya Eny! Hope the snowboarding was fun! And look this the bot was finally banned hurray.

I really like that link head. Reminds me of how I imagined him back when I first played ocarina of time. Have you had a chance to play Breath of the Wild? From what I've seen it looks pretty great!

Anyways... to your Zarya piece. Your not making this easy for me Enydimon. It's mostly that I don't know how to help to push this image even further hahaha. It kinda also depends on where you want to go with this. See the rendering on Zarya is already so well the only thing that's really missing is the background which you just haven't painted in yet haha.

Okay so here is an actual crit but it's something that is really hard to do and it's more like a maybe to look out for next time crit? The one thing that is missing a bit is the illusion of weight. I can see those heavy weights but at the moment they don't really feel like like they are affecting her body. It kind of feels like her whole body should strain more against the weights, despite her enormous strenght. This is however by no way an easy task to do for any artist.

I hope you get what I mean. There are also some nitpicky crits. I think the transition from her neck to her shoulder is a bit to thick. I think there should be at least a slight curve. Also her right arm (left from our view): The upper arm muscles seem to bulge out a bit to much but I'm not to sure with this. There sadly isn't a good reference blog for really buff ladies.

Also what crankshaft said about the face. I know Zarya is super strong but at the moment it just looks like she is just empty minded gazing into the distance, which again destroys the illusion a little that she is lifting really heavy weights. I'm sure you figure something out there. I'll add a little paintover but it's almost useless haha. I gave her a little grumpy expression just to show how it changes the read on the image. She now looks a little more affected by what is going on... but I won't say this is my finest work ahahaha.

Great job though! You renderin style is really coming along. Now I wish you would do the whole overwatch cast :D
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:13 am

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Hey man great work. It was a bit hard to construct a grid based on the photo (not a lot of good info) but this should be accurate enough. Regarding your question:

Where we look is the eye level, which is the same as the horizon line. Usually when we look at people we look at their eyes. So the horizon line would be right at her eyes.

The easiest way to place a grid is to find right angles of things that don't move, such as the edge of a building. Hard to see but I'm assuming this is in a stadium/gym which means there are parallel markings on the floor. Also those cylinder things on the floor look like they would form a right angle so I matched the grid to those points.

Bc there's so little convergence this would be a very flat/long/120mm lenses (little to no perspective). So anything you put in the bg would appear 2d and very flat. They would almost look like silhouettes.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:44 pm

Hey man I think I made a mistake with the explanation. My bad, going to fix it soon. Fail on my part :P
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:50 pm

Hey man.

So to be honest I can`t figure out the exact perspective of the scene. My mistake was placing the horizon too low, I think it should be higher.
My thinking: The photographer must of been standing while he shot the photo. So if both the girl and photographer were standing the horizon would most likely around everyone`s eyes, assuming everyone is roughly the same height. Since she is now squatting we are now looking down at her (we can see the top of her head). The horizon and where we look is opposite, so if we look down the horizon goes up etc.

Also the mountains needed some atmospheric fog to recede and they should be wayyy smaller. Apologies for any confusion.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Enydimon » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:53 pm

Zipfelzeus - Yeah I'm pretty glad it's gone, although I'm worried about the future of the forum since mods don't come around much or at all anymore.

I'm glad you think so! I was intentionally trying to capture the OoT feel with the nose. I haven't played BotW yet, and I'd really like to, but all I have for now is streams. I usually buy a Nintendo console just for Zelda games so when I got the spare change I'll pick it up. It looks really good, though. I didn't play a whole lot of games in March.

Yeah I feel you on that one. I think it might be that the gesture got too tight and I think I could have done better with the elbows. The trick of it is that with a Snatch or Clean & Jerk, the only part of your body that is allowed to extend and muscle through the lift are your legs, so you're effectively trying to catch it and balance it rather than press it out with your arms. They're very beautiful movements and super technical to do right and I think that's true of trying to draw it and capture it accurately. I'd really love to be able to create drawings that capture the explosiveness of it in a still image format.

Regarding the muscles, I'm about to let you in on a secret. One of the most basic things that people learn about muscles and rhythms is this:

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Flexing and lengthening of the muscles. When the arm extends, the triceps bunch up and the biceps relax. When someone flexes their bicep, the triceps lengthen. It's like a pulley or counterbalance thing going on. This is probably what you're thinking about or already know. So if someone's arm is entirely outstretched with no elbow bending and with a lot of weight, it might make sense to think that the biceps are turned off during this movement by going with the above example, but it's a little more complex than that.

The thing is that the biceps in many lifting movements that are triceps heavy will also act like stabilizers. A lengthened muscle doesn't necessarily mean that's it's turned off or not being used, it just means it's not the dominant muscle doing the action.

Going along with that train of thought, it's not just the upper arm muscles that interact with each other but also forearm muscles too! The majority of the muscles on the upper arm attach or originate down on the forearm, and that's how they're able to help create that hinging movement in the elbow. So if you grip something really really tight, your biceps will automatically turn on. In theory you could try to flex from your triceps to minimize bicep flexion, but I'm not convinced that they aren't activated in some capacity.

Add some heavy weight overhead and you get this:
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But even with all that explanation, I can concede that I could do better to make the arms look more natural. The arms became too straight and needed better rhythms, absolutely. I think the size is probably fine and works for stylistic purposes too, but I'm also adding onto the fact that she is a bodybuilder alongside the sport. If you do ever need references for muscular women, for whatever reason, I highly recommend just looking up athletes. Powerlifting and (Olympic)Weightlifting are great examples because the sports have weight classes so you get a variety. There's tons of reference out there and social media profiles to go through, it's just that people don't normally know where to look in the first place.

I'm sorry, I can talk about this stuff for hours, lmao.

And yes, I totally agree about the face. It worked well as a base but it just wasn't going to cut it for the final. I gave it a little bit more grit. And I might do more Overwatch characters too! We'll see. I think this is the first time I've done anything substantial with one of them.

crankshaft
- Thanks a bunch for your thoughts/explanations. I ended up going with the distorted view, but I think it could have worked with the horizon placed above too if I really wanted to go for it. I guess the lesson here is make sure you understand what perspective you're using BEFORE you commit to a pose.
---
So I spent most of my time working on the Zarya piece. I'm calling it finished here and I think it looks pretty good. There are things I would do differently now and some mistakes I can see here and there, but I finished it just under 3 weeks and it looks miles better than any of the big illustrations I tried to do last year that took more months than necessary to complete. Progress.

Also got another panda commission that's in the works, but I'll post when finished. I was looking at the ones from 6 months ago and man did they get a lot better. I'm pretty excited. Putting out as much work as I can has been helping.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Enydimon » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:03 pm

Skipped a week of posting because I didn't have much to really show aside from one commission.

Also drew an old 4.5 year old piece to see what the difference would be. Both had a 7 hour limit.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:00 pm

Hey man great stuff. I don't know much bg about these characters but here's some crit:

For this guy the rune symbol things are very flat and are not following any form.

-The tiger face is also out of perspective. It should wrap around the the stomach.
-A good way to sell a decal or graphic is to put texture, shadows, highlights etc on it as it wraps around.
-I dulled the face and left the eyes to glow as having it completely bright like that was distracting. The whole thing looked like a light source.
-Those swirly things are too busy and can use the same crit as the tiger face.

Keep going buddy! Must go back to spending 100 years on my tank. gogogogog :(

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:18 pm

Here's an eg from my tank of what I mean:

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Zipfelzeus » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:19 pm

Yoo whadup?! Oh man I read that reply you did explaning the muscle issue and thanks for the detailed explanation. I guess it shows a lot my lack of undestanding how muscles actually interact. When you study these anatomy books they usually just give you these standard whatever arm muscles in different angles but hardly any book really dives into more detailed muscles work. At least the popular ones I read. Or maybe they did and I just can't remember?? Well thanks either way that clear things up!

I love how dynamic the new version of your orc character is. He finally has some real knees to bend haha. The old one now looks like a cluster of muscles mashed together compared to the new. Sorry haha.

I also found you tumblr by a funny accident. Someone I was following reblogged your zarýa piece(which turned out great! I love what you did with the background, I'm telling you do some more :D) and they were gushing over how you painted her muscles hahaha. Hope you don't mind that I was so free and pressed that follow button!

Anyway let's stay motivated D:
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Enydimon » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:36 pm

crankshaft - Yeah I completely agree, I have a bad habit with that. I tried to stay conscious of it on the belly rune but I think I just need to really force the exaggeration of the stretch so it actually looks more correct.

As for the glowing stuff, that was something that the commissioner wanted and I just rolled with it. It can be a tough decision to make on whether or not to pitch the idea of making the composition or design more harmonious or just letting them have something that they think would look good. I don't think he would have minded, but I try not to be too much of a killjoy when it comes to commissions for those who just want their personal characters drawn. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and they would like it better.

Zipfelzeus - Bridgeman actually goes into depth about this stuff, but I think most people's inclination when they see the text in that book is to skip it and observe the drawings. The only thing he doesn't really cover is the more intricate interaction with different tensions and bio mechanics that I explained in the previous post. Maybe some anatomy courses cover that bit, but for me it just comes from lifting and being immersed in it. I watch a lot of lifting videos for non-art reasons but I can't shut off the part of my brain that analyzes it from an artist's point of view so it sticks I guess.

And yeah I completely agree! I made it a point to give him a much nicer silhouette. Maybe next time he'll graduate into having feet, haha.

I noticed! I gave you a follow back but you probably already know that by now. I'm not just happy with the attention that it got (1200+ notes!) but also the other Zarya fan art as well. Although forewarning, it's not 100% an artblog, I do shitpost or reblog shitposts from time to time but the last few years I've tried to make it a point to post art more frequently just to feel a bit more productive and also to remind people that I do draw.

Tangentially, I've heard that sharing other people's work or posting non-art related things helps you connect more with your audience than if you didn't. I guess that makes sense, a pure portfolio site should satisfy the art only thing enough.
---
I thought I didn't do that much art this week but I guess I was wrong. Getting around to working on the next big piece and hashing out some thumbnails. Haven't decided on anything yet but leaning more toward the thumbs when the tree trunk laying over the lake.

Don't know if I'll bother finish rendering that Quake piece. The silhouette is too tangety, but the veins were fun to paint.

I should probably draw some non-muscular people. Maybe just some skinny or medium build people, as I've already done my fair share of fat ones. Muscles are fun af to draw but I'm worried it's gonna overpower my portfolio.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Styxcolor » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:12 am

Oh yes, Quake-Guy! Is it the Quake Guy? You really know how to make your followers happy ^-^
Great sketches again. I think your obsession with weight-lifting really pays off.
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:28 am

Hey man good stuff. For the pink head her(?) left arm feels way off, like it's not foreshortened correctly or is dislocated. However it could just be me.|For the quake guy those knee pads should be wrapping more away from us rather than flat facing. I also think the gun be positioned higher to draw the eye towards his face instead of leading us away from the figure. It also feels out of perspective.
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Enydimon » Mon May 01, 2017 6:36 pm

Styxcolor - Technically his name is Ranger, but Quake Guy is has always been an acceptable name imo. Thanks.

crankshaft - On our right hand side? Maybe less dislocated and more an uncomfortable range of motion, her elbow should be tilted further back a bit. I honestly wasn't trying to pull off any sort of foreshortening or thinking about it but you're right that there should be some there so it's more natural. I need to work on making my posing more natural.

Regarding Quake Guy those aren't knee pads, they're actually pads for his thighs, but yeah they were just placeholders and I would have gone back and fixed them. I just had no desire to finish the piece. Regarding placement of the gun the original intent was to draw him pointing at the ground and rocket jumping but it obviously wasn't successful so I fell back on what I could draw. Imo the biggest issue is the gesture and silhouette. If they were more appealing and more concrete then getting the perspective and everything else right would have been easier. No disagreements here.
---
Lots of line work this week, 3 of which were commissions. I'm not 100% confident on the perspective or forms on any of these but they were all green lit and I don't want to sit on them forever. Shout out to Danny for the crit on the sitting orc piece, I'm still certain there's funky perspective going on but it's better than it was. The one with the wolf guy and the gun was a sketch commission so it works for what it is but feel free to crit or correct it anyway. I'll try to take this information moving forward if I can. I think I really need to loosen up and stop being so tight all the time.

Also joined The Oatley Academy. Still need to get on my first bit of homework, but hopefully when I finish some of these commissions it'll free up a bit more time. I guess the personal piece is on hold for the time being.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Styxcolor » Tue May 02, 2017 8:51 am

Great new linework, Enydimon!

Wait a couple of weeks, maybe I'm on a level to give you constructive criticism then ^-^
To me they all look right. I googled sitting poses in high angle and after looking at them agree that the hip is as much in the front as in the second piece, when a person sits this way, depicted in this angle.
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Sat May 06, 2017 5:38 am

Hey man good stuff. For the hammer guy the positioning of his hammer feels off, like it's out of perspective and could be foreshortened more. It also feels weird being directly over his head like that. I think the pose feels off too, like the arm should bend at the elbow or that he should use both arms to swing a hammer that size. It feels very unbalanced and unnatural.

Great to hear that you've joined the Oatley Academy. Does anyone there do vehicles or hard surface? I wanted to join but the community is mainly based on animation and storytelling.
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Willlake » Sun May 07, 2017 6:39 am

cool stuff Eny :)
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Enydimon » Tue May 09, 2017 8:31 am

Styxcolor - Thanks. I think the positioning of the character is probably the most correct part but I don't like the chair much.

crankshaft - Yeah I tried fixing the perspective on it a bit but I don't think it's enough. The weapon is one handed but just looks huge because it's Warcraft but I probably could have made the hilt a little bit shorter. I do have a keychain of it and tried to use it to get the general perspective down but that only does so much.

I can't really do much else to change it compositionally, though, the client was really specific about what they wanted. I tried offering alternative compositions but had to meet them half way on it. Which is fine, it's a commission, I don't really view any of it as truly belonging to me outside the actual physical work.

Regarding Oatley Academy, you're right that it's mostly an illustration/visual dev community but it doesn't focus on line drawing at all really. Almost all the lessons centre around painting and the very first lesson involves drawing an animal person. I don't think I saw anything about vehicles, although I'd argue that if you understand basic painting principles that the subject or surfaces wouldn't matter anyway. I don't know if I'll stick around or not, it's kind of a gamble buying any of this stuff. You don't always know what you're gonna get or if it'll be useful for where you currently are.

Willlake - Thanks!
---
Finished the commissions last week and going at a snail's pace with the personal piece. Feeling a bit in a slump with the personal stuff, which makes the commission work more tiring than usual. The discord is going well, which I'm grateful for, but I'm still feeling kind of burnt out.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Willlake » Wed May 10, 2017 3:29 pm

yaaaay eny updated \o/

so these are all comissions?
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Zipfelzeus » Mon May 15, 2017 10:35 am

I always forget how good your lineart and kinda like cel shading? is. I'm always positivley surprised! I hope you're doing well.

Top down or bottm up perspective still gives me nightmares. They however so incredlibly useful for certain dynamics.

As for your personal piece thumbnails. I would personally either go with 5 or 3. 2 Also works. 5 gives off a very calm adn relaxed mood while 3 add a little more shape diversity into the compostion.

See ya around!
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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby Enydimon » Mon May 15, 2017 8:04 pm

Willlake - Anything that you see that is cel shaded is pretty much a commission. I haven't bothered to do a personal piece that was cel shaded in a very long time but it's what people apparently like from me. I still do painted commissions and am in the process of one right now, but I'm holding off on posting the WIPs just yet. And of course some of those sketches. I've been trying to do more personal work this year so the commission work doesn't take up like 90% of my output, though.

zipfelzeus
- Thanks! I think I've improved the process by a lot but I'm still not 100% happy with the values and style just yet. I think my preference is still to just paint, but this gives me good practise with line work.

5 seems to be the preferred choice for a lot of people, so I might end up going for that. You do make a good point about 3, though. Gotta stop dragging me feet on it and learn how to make decisions for myself.
---
I probably should not have joined Oatley Academy when I was super busy but I put in more work on the first assignment. Probably wont take much longer to get through.

I think I'm starting to rebound on the burnout stuff. I got a vacation coming up so I don't want to go too easy on myself, I can hold out.

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Re: Eny's sketchbook

Postby crankshaft » Fri May 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Excellent stuff man! Sadly, especially now that I'm learning 3d I rarely see the need to do traditional work, particularly line drawings. Which is probably why my line drawings suck in the first place. :)

Anyways some crit: For the animals they feel too spongy and organic and could use some tighter curves/slight straights to give more structure and hint of a skeleton underneath. Particularly around the limbs. Think of the human body.

Keep going buddy!
crankshaft
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