Crankshaft's SB

Brutal critiques and constructive feedback! Help others and get help back!

Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:20 pm

More updates. Everything else is super messy and not presentable but I made some progress with the tank. I'll post some advice I learned from my mentor about concept art soon, along with the figures.

Going to try and be more positive with my thinking: I think I'm making progress with the tank? It's amazing how we can overlook obvious problems when we spend so much time on one thing. At first my tank had the proportions of a baby! (Big head, stubby limbs and body)

tank old 1.jpeg
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tank rear feb 4.jpg
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side tank feb 4.jpg
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Visual library studies.

Another Japanese Zero 1943

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The world's first hybrid car. The Lohner-Porsche Mixte Hybrid, 1905.

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Semper_Vivus_03.jpg
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Some heavy equipment.

he eva.jpg
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backhoe.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:25 pm

Enydimon wrote:Mech's and such are looking good as always! Figures are getting better too.

Be mindful of not just muscle but also bodyfat deposits too! For example, while it might not always be blatantly visible, we tend to have fat deposits underneath the armpit that runs along the same horizontal line as our pectoral muscles. So depending on how much fat a woman has or how she carries it, there might not be a visible fold, but try not to hollow it out so sharply or go straight to the ribcage. Unless someone is really REALLY sickly thin, they're still going to have some form of muscle or fat in the way to give that area some volume.

boobfat.jpg


This applies to just humans in general. It all just depends upon how they carry their fat deposits and how much fat they have.

If you're not already doing it, take some time to just observe the human body and analyze it without it having to be for sitting down and drawing it. I'm sure you already do this with cars and machinery because of your job, it's a similar concept here. You can learn a lot through deliberately studying the figure, but even in your day to day life, getting in the habit of analyzing what you're looking at can help an artist a lot. Get perceptive. If you're watching a live action movie or TV show in your down time don't just passively watch, really look at what you're watching. You might spot things you didn't notice before.


Wow that's some great advice! So subtle but important. Thanks a lot! Probably would of never even noticed that if you didn't point it out :)

Regarding being more perceptive that's definitely lacking on my part. When ever I do groceries and stuff I'll make sure to stare more at people :P. But yeah there is a lot to learn there. Thanks for dropping by!
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:34 am

Here's most of the work from my mentorship. It's over now but I learned so much. It doesn't look like much but he probably saved me 6 months of progress. Going to keep things raw and keep his notes and my notes together.

This first pic shows the difference between a concept pose and illustration pose.
concept poses.jpg
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Kit bash poses. The goal here was to learn how the body naturally connects. This is before.
kit bash before.jpg
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After
kit bash after.jpg
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line over fig 3.jpg
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line over fig 2.jpg
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gest b4.jpg
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4 poses red correct.jpg
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1 pose red correct.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:38 am

line over fig 4.jpg
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shade 1.jpg
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shade 2.jpg
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shade 3.jpg
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shade 4.jpg
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sil before.jpg
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sil crit after.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby Imbalantus » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:27 am

Very nice! Looks like you've learned a lot. What's the teacher's name?
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:44 am

Updates. Worked on the back of the tank some more.
rear feb 11.jpg
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34 rear feb 11.jpg
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shad 34 rear feb 11.jpg
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Visual library study. 1954 Chevy Bel Air. Look at where all the chrome is located.

195 bel air chev.jpg
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1954 bel air chev ref.jpg
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So bc I lack the hand eye coordination my mentor told me to start tracing figures and be more deliberate with my lines. Ie Where the muscle blends into a another muscle the lines should taper. It's very hard and it feels like I'm cheating.

Other things to practice:
-Focus on better intersections
-Merge my lines into more seamless curves instead of multiple arches
-Improve proportions

feb 11 muscles.jpg
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feb 11 skel.jpg
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feb 11 trace.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:45 am

Imbalantus wrote:Very nice! Looks like you've learned a lot. What's the teacher's name?


Thanks man! Enjoy the mentorship! Tell him I said hi!
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:35 pm

Updates. Did some more work on the tank. Pretty much done modeling, just need to show the different modes of the plow. Going to render soon.

tank feb 17 4.jpg
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tank feb 17 2.jpg
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tank feb 17 3.jpg
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tank feb 17 1.jpg
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Visual library study. 1935 Buick series 40 model

buick.jpg
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1935 buick series 40 model.jpg
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Anatomy disaster.
feb 17 ana 1.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:08 am

Updates. More views of the tank. Will post the different modes of the plow soon. Also more anatomy stuff. Nothing to be proud of here, just straight up copying and cheating.

ana feb 20.jpg
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4 trace.jpeg
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4 skel.jpeg
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4 mus.jpeg
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3 trace.jpg
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3 skel.jpg
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2 skel.jpg
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2 mus.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:15 am

rear tank feb 20.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:45 am

Updates. Going thru some serious discouragement and burnout. I want to go back to using the word fail bc that's what I feel like now.

On a more positive note I learned a new rendering software and did some mockups of the tank. I'll add texture soon. Pretty excited bc this is going to speed my workflow considerably. I love 3D!

34 tank mar 4.jpg
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sell shot tank mar 4.jpg
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rear tank mar 4.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby Enydimon » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:18 pm

Nah it's not cheating, dude. It's a great way to test your knowledge of what you already know. People who don't know anatomy so well will usually mess up and misinterpret muscle groups. One of the reasons why I think people should learn the origins and insertions of the muscles is so that their references can be of better use to them. Knowing what you're looking at and understanding it is incredibly useful and will only make even better use of your references.

crankshaftpaintover5.jpg
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If you really do want to learn anatomy seriously, though, I think the one thing you're lacking outside all of these studies is having an actual piece to apply it to. If you're going through all this trouble to learn how to draw humans, you might as well get creative with it and find a way to make humanoids fun to draw from a design aspect.

And I hear you on the 3D stuff. I've thought about putting the 2D stuff on a backburner for a month or two just to get back into it fully. Wish there were more hours to just do everything.
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:40 pm

Update on my tank! I think I'm going to surpass my ray mech! How is this possible? Lots of small problems here and there, going to get it critiqued by my mentor soon. gogogogog

tank 34 for perma.jpg
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perma mech.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:44 pm

Enydimon wrote:Nah it's not cheating, dude. It's a great way to test your knowledge of what you already know. People who don't know anatomy so well will usually mess up and misinterpret muscle groups. One of the reasons why I think people should learn the origins and insertions of the muscles is so that their references can be of better use to them. Knowing what you're looking at and understanding it is incredibly useful and will only make even better use of your references.

crankshaftpaintover5.jpg


If you really do want to learn anatomy seriously, though, I think the one thing you're lacking outside all of these studies is having an actual piece to apply it to. If you're going through all this trouble to learn how to draw humans, you might as well get creative with it and find a way to make humanoids fun to draw from a design aspect.

And I hear you on the 3D stuff. I've thought about putting the 2D stuff on a backburner for a month or two just to get back into it fully. Wish there were more hours to just do everything.


Hey man thanks for dropping by! Thanks for the crit! Totally overlooked that! Would love to apply all this anatomy to an actual character piece but I don't even know how to start :( The only knowledge of characters I know are from video games meaning anything I draw would probably look cliche or watered down...Anyways thanks for dropping by!
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby Enydimon » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:56 pm

Don't worry about it looking cliche or even if it's in the realm of fan art, you can still learn a lot regardless. Even if the design is already made for you, you still have to be able to draw the figure and/or costume convincingly. Adhering to a premade design can actually be pretty challenging anyway because you can't just change whatever you want to make it easier for the illustration.

I say just go for it. You have to start sometime and you're not going to automatically be pumping out crazy cool designs right off the bat anyway. No amount of putting it off is really going to change much of that.
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby hincor » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:43 pm

I second eny, you have been doing figure for a long time, but I don't see it being applied. Go and draw some people beyond just their figure and anatomy! Put them in the spotlight, no need to put to the side, and add some imagination. Who cares if it looked weird, we are permanoobs anyway! :P

Love your mech stuff, but I really hope you go beyond the figures, and make it fun!
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby Enydimon » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:16 pm

Also, since I forgot to say it since I last posted, don't worry so much about cliche designs in general either. Cliche designs, stories, characters, etc... aren't inherently bad things. They're cliches for a reason, they're things that work. How they're executed is way more important imo.

You're always going to need a generic barbarian character or a generic space marine. Not every spaceship or piece of machinery needs to stand out either, it just needs to work. You're always going to need mundane designs, but that doesn't mean they can't be interesting. Not everything calls for something new and interesting and exciting. It's fine to aspire for something outside the box but don't get hung up on it either. Especially if it prevents you from creating.
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:36 pm

Updates. Applied some critique from my mentor. It had too much texture which flattened everything so I brought back more form. Almost done! I love designing stuff!

tank mar 17.jpg
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Anatomy on the other hand.

mar 17 muscles.jpg
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mar 17 skel.jpg
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mar 17 trace.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:51 pm

Enydimon wrote:Also, since I forgot to say it since I last posted, don't worry so much about cliche designs in general either. Cliche designs, stories, characters, etc... aren't inherently bad things. They're cliches for a reason, they're things that work. How they're executed is way more important imo.

You're always going to need a generic barbarian character or a generic space marine. Not every spaceship or piece of machinery needs to stand out either, it just needs to work. You're always going to need mundane designs, but that doesn't mean they can't be interesting. Not everything calls for something new and interesting and exciting. It's fine to aspire for something outside the box but don't get hung up on it either. Especially if it prevents you from creating.


Hey man that's great advice! Never really thought of it that way! So true a big part of being a concept artist is actually in the mundane stuff as well. You're given me some great reasons to do fan art! Maybe I'll do a character/driver for the tank to apply some of my anatomy. For now there's so much to do :(
Thanks for dropping by!
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:56 pm

hincor wrote:I second eny, you have been doing figure for a long time, but I don't see it being applied. Go and draw some people beyond just their figure and anatomy! Put them in the spotlight, no need to put to the side, and add some imagination. Who cares if it looked weird, we are permanoobs anyway! :P

Love your mech stuff, but I really hope you go beyond the figures, and make it fun!


Thanks man! Definitely will try in the future don't worry! Failing is learning! gogogog
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:02 am

Updates! Finally another portfolio piece! It looks like something off Artstation! But it took 100 years :(

This drawing is the equivalent of tons of sketches, iterations, revisions. I learned complex modeling in sketchup, some blender, a new rendering engine, texturing, design, proportions, how tanks work and much more. So it's more like 30-40 drawings in one.

The first piece is more like actual concept art. Notice how it looks like a set of instructions.

tank ca mar 22.jpg
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This piece is more like an illustration/pretty picture. Notice how a lot of important info is lost.

tank final mar 22.jpg
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Included some close up beauty shots.

tank side.jpg
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tank plow.jpg
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tank pistons.jpg
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tank logo.jpg
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tank guns.jpg
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tank cp close up.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:02 am

Updates. Doing all this tight stuff is burning me out so I've decided to include some looser sketches in my routine.

5 c.jpg
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Anatomy studies. But I want to draw cars

mar 26  a1.jpg
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mar 26  a2.jpg
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mar 26  a3.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:08 pm

Lots updates. Not too much work for myself, been mainly busy helping others with tutorials and critiques.

Scary anatomy is scary. Scary.

mus mar 31.jpg
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skel mar 31.jpg
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trace mar 31.jpg
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Vehicles are awesome. Just loose sketches from imagination.

mar 30 s2.jpg
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mar 30 s1.jpg
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So I'm working on giving the same treatment with the rear of the tank and ran into a lot of design problems. The back middle part made no sense. It originally was supposed to be a bed for cargo/supplies but it was unclear. Plus it made the turret awkwardly exposed. It also created a lot of value/overlapping headaches. So I gave it a large engine instead, which makes better sense and the large scale adds to the heavy duty feeling of the tank.

Before

rear tank feb 20.jpg
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Now
tank rear mar 31.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:10 pm

I also did a tutorial for someone on kit bashing. Super excited to do more with this new workflow/technique. I sort of like the design of the ship and I haven't even spent 100 years on it yet. Just going to leave it more as a concept piece ie guessing at the perspective etc.

kb mar 31.jpg
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gif-2.gif
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Kit bashing is a powerful production technique used by concept artists to generate ideas quickly and efficiently, since time is money.
Basically you take parts of anything (be it brush strokes, old paintings, photos etc) and collage them together to build something unified.

You turn the chaos (via painting on top, lassoing, transforming etc) into cool shapes and eventually a final design.

This technique is powerful and when my mentor showed it to me it literally changed my world. It triggers/induces happy accidents and ideas that would otherwise be impossible to achieve on your own.

It's similar to looking at clouds. No 2 people are going to see the same things in one cloud. This is bc our brains are very good at seeing cool shapes when they are presented to us. These shapes would hard to come up on our own.

But there is a flaw: You need to have some visual library and knowledge of your design/subject matter. If you know nothing about air planes then it'll just be chaos to chaos. So you still need references.

The easier and fastest approach is to use random photos that match your specs. But start by planning and doing roughs.

For the demo I'll do a simple ship. I want an aggressive ship with lots of sharp diagonals and it has to be very aerodynamic. The more specific you are now the better. It'll save lots of headaches and time later.

So using my knowledge and visual library of cars I know that Lamborghinis are very fast aggressive cars. If you want to make something old and retro you could use steam trains. If you want something boxy and slow you could use school buses etc.

Put a black value layer set to color on top of your layer stack and do everything in bw. This will make it much easier to see cool forms.

The first part is the most fun, hard and depressing part.

It's fun bc you are building a world from chaos. It's depressing bc everything is a mess.

It's hard bc you are juggling design, proportion, perspective (you can make perspective easier by doing the ships in side views) function, rendering etc all at once. But it's not really as hard as it looks bc everything is given to you. You just organize the mess.
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:20 am

Updates. Super tired these days but here's some junk.

Tank rear wip. Struggling a bit with separating the values and the reflective surfaces.
tank rear apr 7.jpg
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Kit bash ship wip.
kb apr 7 close up.jpg
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kb apr 7.jpg
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Anatomy disaster.

apr 7 trace.jpg
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apr 7 skel.jpg
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apr 7 mus.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:07 pm

Some updates. Not as much progress as I'd like, been busy fixing other people's cars :( I'm also feeling a lot more burnt out these days.

Tank rear. I think the values are getting better?

apr 14 rear.jpg
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Kit bash ship wip.

apr 14 kb.jpg
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Disaster.

apr 14 mus.jpg
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apr 14 skel.jpg
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apr 14 trace.jpg
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crit ana apr 14.jpg
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Visual library study of a night vision head set. Sort of gave up towards the end.

hs apr 9.jpg
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hs ref.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby Enydimon » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:28 pm

Your anatomical interpretations are betting better, but I would recommend you do some exercises where you have a reference of all the muscles in front of you and then try to place them on the photo. Then once you've done that, create another copy and try to recreate it and see how close you get.

It might feel like cheating to do it that way but it's really not. The goal is for you to be able to memorize these muscle groups, understand what they are, and where they're placed correctly, and sometimes that means you'll have to sit in front of the information you need until you get it. You're still missing some key distinctions between muscles and your colour coding doesn't seem very consistent. If you give more care to those things I think you'll see some good improvement.
Self Deprecation ≠ Self Awareness
SB: http://forums.permanoobs.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=161
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crowbit » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:33 pm

love your google sketchup tanks. do you know of anyone an tutorials on make stuff like that, or is it just a figure it out yourself job?
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:06 am

No progress as usual. Struggle is real.

Omg why does everything I draw look like a car?? Why?? But yeah I've butchered the Ferrari Laferrari. It's a hybrid with a v12 engine :P Must steal those forms!!! gogoggo

la ferr apr 15.jpg
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white-ferrari-laferrari-is-supreme-eye-candy-photo-gallery_1.jpg
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Tank rear. Something feels off, like the values or too much texture? I did fall into that trap of over detailing so I've actually eliminated some details.

tank rear apr 22.jpg
tank rear apr 22.jpg (102.9 KiB) Viewed 558 times


Kit bash wip. Struggling with the design of those rear wing tips.

kb apr 22.jpg
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kb apr 22 3.jpg
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kb apr 22 2.jpg
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Re: Crankshaft's SB

Postby crankshaft » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:14 am

Enydimon wrote:Your anatomical interpretations are betting better, but I would recommend you do some exercises where you have a reference of all the muscles in front of you and then try to place them on the photo. Then once you've done that, create another copy and try to recreate it and see how close you get.

It might feel like cheating to do it that way but it's really not. The goal is for you to be able to memorize these muscle groups, understand what they are, and where they're placed correctly, and sometimes that means you'll have to sit in front of the information you need until you get it. You're still missing some key distinctions between muscles and your colour coding doesn't seem very consistent. If you give more care to those things I think you'll see some good improvement.


Hey man thanks for the info! I use the book Hampton as reference for all the muscles. He color codes and simplifies which helps greatly. They're not perfect, ie I tend to guess what the muscles look like on the inside of the legs, as he doesn't include diagrams of them. I also use the book Loomis but it's super technical and overwhelming. I should probably search for online refs but I haven't found any that are as good as Hampton. But I really struggle with seeing how they stretch and contract and wrap around the body, even more so with a dynamic pose/camera angle.

In terms of the color coding could you elaborate what you mean by consistent. Just so that I know for next time :P I color code them to separate them from merging so sometimes I'll have the same muscles with 2 colors.
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